Barb or Barbless and why?

[Campcook]

I have always fished barbless and I know it has been easier for me to remove my flys from countless fish and more then a few nets, vests, hats, etc.. But I really don't have any proof that it is safer for the fish. I just assumed that when the hook didn't make that ripping noise as I removed it...it had to be safer.. I tell all the new people I fish with to pinch the barbs down, is it a waste or not.. I know some sections of some rivers require it but how do they make that choice...

Campcook

[ALG]

Hold on.... Cause here we gooooooo!!
somebody might want to go ahead and lock this one up http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif .
ALG

[BLACK KNIGHT]

This is always a FUN topic! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

Basically, the argument for barbless is it is easier on a fish that gets released, esecially over and over, because it doesn't tear out a chunk of flesh each time, and opens up a larger path for infection. I have always remembered Jimmy Harris' suggestion that if you don't appreciate the damage the barb does to a fish's mouth, stick a hook in your finger past the barb, then pull it back out. Try it! I would have to do this while lying down, so I didn't hurt myself when I passed out. As for me, I'll take Jimmy's word for it. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[THE EG]

It's usually about 26 for barbless, one against. Guess who? Did Rod start this thing. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[NiteOwl]

You know, for such a modest and sensible man, Eg, you sure have slanted the facts in regard to that number. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif haha

I fish barbed because I am a fisherman. I like to catch fish( not just look at them from a distance).
I love trout, and think they are wonderful creatures, but I do not worship them. Not saying that all barbless fishermen do worship them, but I have my doubts about some.... http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

I dare to say that I am not alone in fishing barbed. I know a few others that have even gone barbed after losing fish.( If you gave a sarcastic " huh." after that, then I tell you......smookiecubber in el bondifico.) I lost nine in a row yesterday before realzing that Jahlive! had given me a barbless fly. Thought I was losing my mind. ( Don't answer that! haha)Then I looked at the hook and oh....there we go, then. Bob was my uncle.


And lastly, the reason I fish barbless is that I have no desire to practice the fine art of winching a fish in as fast as I can. I like to see them jump and fight, and do not wish to spend my day with my jaw tight, hoping that they won't come off the hook.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

A premptive strike. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif


" Well, you just don't know how to fish then." - or -
" Well, you have to keep the line tight, that's the way your supposed to land a fish" -or-
" You don't know how to keep pressure on them"
-or-
"I catch just as many fish with barbless"
( I'd like to see that in person)
-or-
a hundred other things.....


I think I can set the hook in a fish, thank you.
I also think I can land a fish, thank you....without stripping him in broadside across the water's surface.
I have been fishing for 25 years.....10 of that for trout....
I have tried barbless over and over and over again, and for the life of me, have no faith in it at all, as to it's ability to land fish.
Lastly, I keep asking for someone to take me fishing, catch and land all( or almost all) of the fish they hook( with barbless hooks) and show me how they do it. No one ever offers.
If it can be done, then I would consider it,


I'm still not convinced.


Then there's that thing, where you fish barbless and the hook is in the fish's mouth on the first jump, the side of his head on the second, and in his tail when you lnad him. I'm not so sure that in that case, that barbless is better for the fish at all. But then again, I'm not so worried about the fish, to the extent that it would keep me up at night. Barbless hooks will one day be the tool of PETA.

If barbless to help the fish, why fish for fish at all? Without the evils of fishing, they'd be totally unhurt.


Just you wait and see.....


Thanks, I feel better. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

------------------
Flyfishing for trout is hope,.... on a fine, thin string.

[This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 07-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 07-14-2000).]

[The Ole Man]

I frequently go barbless after the following "procedures"- once upon a time:

Procedure #1: #6 long shank barbed hook is embedded in my left index finger all the way to the bend entering about 1/4 inch above the top joint of finger.

Pro #2 Go to Dr.

Pro #3 Receive 3 numbing shots-one of which goes directly into the joint. #$@$^&

Pro #4 Hook shank is grasped with a pair of forceps and the hook is is twisted and run through my finger- point and barb pop out the top of finger near the nail.

Pro #5 Point and barb are cut off and the eye is cut off the other end. Hook is grasped and pulled on through my finger.

Pro #6 Go home and finger "throbs" all night.

I was 11 years old at the time. It is something you never forget-cuz that was 47 years ago. When I debarb, "to heck with the fish-I'm taking care of ME"!

[Grizzz]

ALG you are right. When I saw the topic of this post I knew we were in for a wild ride.

I fish barbless for many reasons. First is that I like being able to release a fish easier and especially like how I do not tear off 1/3 of his lip in the process. The less that you handle a fish and get him back in the water, the more chance that he is going to survive.

Owl, I also like to land fish, but I do feel that getting them to hit is 75% of the battle. Now I know you have fished with me before, and yes you have heard me cuss a few times, well quite a few times, when I have lost a fish. But to tell you the truth it does not bother me for too long. That is as long as it was not a big fish.

Lastly, I sure wish I could find the article, but there was a study done recently comparing the penetration ability of barbless compared to barbed hooks. This report showed that with much less pressure and therefore easier penetration, barbless hooks worked much better. If I can find that article I will post it.

The Grizz

[Sic Puppy]

I got into barbless hooks because small bass have a tendency to rapidly accelerate the digestive process to the point that ingress and egress apparently happens within a matter of seconds as far as they're concerned and a surgical level far beyond me is required to extract that hook. I've also read that barbs were initially put on hooks to hold the bait on, not the fish, so as much as it pains me, I'm going to have to go wth the PC opinion on this one: I fish barbless and don't lose any more fish that I can tell.

[Gray ghost]

I like to have a barb on my streamers and nymphs when I fish. You never know when a big old Brown or Bow is going to hit.When I was at JB a few months back I hooked into what I thought was just another tuff little dink but when I was stripping him in to release him and he realized he was caught and I realized he was about 18 to 20 inches we were both in trouble. He then started to go nuts and came out of the water wide open turning and fliping trying to get away. He jetted back down river pretty quick with me trying to keep some control on him with my line until I could get him on the reel. Im not to sure that a barbless hook would have held him on. I guess I will never know since I was using a big streamer with a barb but im willing to bend a few down and see for myself. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[NiteOwl]

See. I told you Eg.
http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif Thanks to GG, Grizzley, and BK, who all , in their patronizing and round-about way, support my theory that it IS fun to LAND them. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif hahahahaha


I hope you didn't release that fish with 2/3 of his lip left. Poor thing probably had to go on a liquid diet for a week. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

I'm glad you think a barbless hook "works better" Grizz, but I think I'll clarify that for everyone. The theory is that it hooks better. It also releases better( or worse if you like to land them) http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gifhahaha

I guess we'll have to make two new "catagories" of fishermen, called "catchermen" and one called "ooops-he-got-off-men".


Owl
http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif you silly fellas.........I'm going to catch a few, now. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

I'm still waiting............

Oh and Ole Man, that's the only thing that I can see as a valid argument(for me). However, my unwavering love of the trout keeps me wanting to touch them....all. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

See, I'm still being civil.......


75%..........three out of four.......I think that's about right for you......and that could be your ratio of food to brew, too now, couldn't it? HAHAHAHAHA

When's the next trip ???? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 07-17-2000).]

[fish2much]

when fishing barbless i have lost a few fish-maybe a few out of ten that is totally due to the fish swimming toward me faster than i can keep up or something of the sort. a barbed hook doesn't totally negate this problem. when the line isn't tight everyone loses fish. i do believe a barbless hook gives a better hookset.

imho, barbed hooks will catch more fish, and if the hook is removed with hemostats(for you city folk) or needle noses(for us rednecks) i don't there is a lot of damage to the mouth.

i like barbless better. i don't mind losing a few extra fish. i like being able to release the fish by simply turning the hook. lastly, after spending a miserable, windy, rainy, and hot day on the hiwassee river with a size 14 prince nymph stuck in my bicep, i decided to sacrifice the few fish and go barbless.

[BLACK KNIGHT]

I fish whatever I have. Sometimes barbless, mostly barbed. I've never taken 1/3 of a fish's lip off- I know, that was an exaggeration to make a point! Frankly, as far as the fish, IMHO it's much to do about very little.

Owl- can my wife prescribe some Prozac or something? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[Frequent Flyer]

This May, I met Piscator fishing at Jones. We fished near each other for about an hour, then he walked over to a rock and stopped fishing. After about 30 minutes I checked on him. He had a hook buried in his arm and was nausiated. He left and had to stop at Wally World to get the tools to remove that hook. That guy was in huge pain.

[fly on the wall]

campcook:
I started fishing barbless many years ago. I friend who was into small dries and light tippets encouraged me to try mashing the barbs down to facilitate hook penetration. It worked like dream on #22 and #24 midge hooks.
When I started fly rodding saltwater shortly there after, I was again advised that barbless hooks penetrated better.
So, now all flies I tie are flattened. Better hook set-no losses. I even flatten the barbs on jigs for bream and crappie.
Hey Owl:
No disrespect or condescenion intented but, anytime,anywhere.

[BLACK KNIGHT]

A long range release is like shaking hands on your wedding night. The deal is just not closed!

[Rod]

Owl,
You're right...with everything I would've said...again.

Thanks for the warm sentiment EG.

Rod

[NiteOwl]

FOTW........so you can show me how to land fish on a barbless hook without resorting to winching them in like a madman at breakneck speed? Is that what your saying? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif


Owl


http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[fly on the wall]

Yep

[troutabout]

My fly was hooked into the keeper in front of the cork when I slipped my hand down the shaft and pierced my ring finger straight into the tip. The reaction was violent and quick and I felt the flesh pulling back out with the barb. Thank heavens it was a mini-barb and only an 18. If it was a 14 and a full barb it could have been messy. It was debarbed on the spot and the finger quit throbbing before we got to the next stream. I catch and release and when it's on a barbless and they get off we call that an "extended release" or "early release" or "automatic release". I like it because it lets me get the fly back into the water quicker for the next trout. NOTE: "extended release" trout can often be much larger than if you had released by hand and sometimes they double in size before you get back to the car.

------------------
troutabout

[NiteOwl]

I accept. I would also like to ask for a volunteer to witness the event, to keep the involved parties honest in their reports on the teaching. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif I am ready to learn. I hope you are right. If you can teach me how to hook and land( without wenching them in 100 miles an hour), even %50 of the fish I hook on barbless hooks, I will be well on my way to conversion. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif


I suggest the Summer Fling, if we have one.


Owl
who should have been born in Missouri... http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[fly on the wall]

Owl:
I'll have you mashing barbs in no time. I don't think we need a witness. Just a little friendly fishing between a couple of know-it-alls. But, the summer fling will do.

[Gray ghost]

Since im of the barb group I want to play if we team up . We would need a stream referee to confirm a positive hook-up and a hands on or net release. Perfect playing field would be JB. Lots of room easy for the stream referee's to call the play. Now all we have to decide Owl ,BK is where their team is going to buy us lunch or dinner. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[fly on the wall]

Ghost:
JB sounds fine. In fact, I should be there tomorrow afternoon if the dam cooperates.
Hope to see there if you have some time. Thanks for the cool streamer sites you've been posting.
Owl:
I catch mostly browns at Jones. As you know they don't jump much. I don't winch them in a breakneck speed, but I don't play them to exhaustion either. I found a played out rainbow of about 13 inches there a couple of weeks ago. No hook scars or cut line. Just played out. I spent time trying to revive the fish. He eventually swam off, but bellied up on the bottom in a hole too deep to reach him. I don't worship trout either, but that was a dirty shame. That fish should be alive, well, a bit more educated and causing me all sorts grief over trying to dupe him with a dry.
I don't know if barbless releases are any better than barbed, but as stated I get better hook penetration, no appreciable losses, and don't play them any differently, than I can tell, from my barbed days.
I truly do hope we get to fish together one day. Might just be fun.

[Gray ghost]

Hey FOTW that sounds good for me tomorrow let me know what time you want to go I will meet you at JB .The release today was from 3:05 to 7:20 if its the same tomorrow that will give us plenty of time to catch and release all the trout at JB and be home in time for dinner. I come in on the fulton county side.Call me at my shop tomorrow 770-410-9607 if the answer machine picks up leave a message and number and I will call you right back. Ichthus where are you man you know what we are going to be hunting down there. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

I like to float it FOTW if you need a tube let me know tonight or tomorrow morning and I will throw an extra one in my Van. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Gray ghost (edited 07-18-2000).]

[fly on the wall]

Ghost:
About 5:00pm give or take with traffic. Call me at 404-456-6137 for anything pertintent.

[fly on the wall]

Ghost:
I have a tube. Appreciate the offer. See you about 5:00.

[Gray ghost]

Ok FOTW seeya at JB the release is 3:05 to 7:20 today .

[NiteOwl]

I relinquish my position to G-Ghost. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
HAve fun guys......

Oh and FOTW.......I was kidding about hte referee......I'd really think about doing it if I could land the dang things with them(barbless hooks) if only for the reasons The Ole Man stated.
( oh and others....don't want to leave anyone out, now do we....)

[THE EG]

Hey, Owl. I didn't mean to leave you with that exaggerated barbless/barbed ratio hanging in the air. I've been to an out-of-town funeral and busy helping the other EG's new business (hair salon) as a general gofer in my spare time.

I meant to come back right after you and agree with what you said. I like barbed hooks the more the stakes go up. i.e, If I am expecting 10" stockers I don't care whether barbless or barbed. But if I am after bruiser fish I like the security of that barb.

Hang in there.

I respectfully submit that I will probably change my stance if I ever drive a #6 Woolly booger into my arm. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif Knock on wood.

[monroe carpenter]

I'm trying to post a pic of a fly in your eye . help

[bbell]

I remember a picture in Fly Fisherman several years ago of a nymph in someone's eyeball on the San Juan River.
I have been hooked past the barb 5 or 6 times and it is not fun. Most of those necessitated a trip to the hospital or the services of a redneck plier surgeon. The monofilament loop method of removal is amazingly effective and painless but only works in certain cases. Barbless is better, especially with Rapalas, Mirrorlures and the like.
I think we need to have a hooksetting clinic for the nonbelievers.

[fly on the wall]

Owl:
In response to your post of 7/19, I just wanted to apologize for my "holier than owl" attitude. If you fish half as good as you post, we have to get together soon.
We need a special smiley face for those of us who tend to be sarcastic. How about a little owl winking? Then everyone will know our intentions and maybe we won't have so many bunched up folks.

[rollcast]

Barbless, always barbless.

As for why? Check the archives. The posts on this topic are stacked as deep as a pool full of newly stocked trout.

Regards, DA

[NiteOwl]

Eg, did you say the official golfer ? haha http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif


FOTW.......no problemo.The rumors of my fishing prowess have been greatly exaggerated. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif SO, did you guys go and did BK catch any without the barb?
I'm ready to fish......hooking up with other NGTOr's is my problem! haha http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

As I said, I'd fish barbless, but not if I don't land most of the fish.and what would reallllly make me upset is , like EG said, having a big ol nice one get loose. I want to do the "loose-ing". http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

Owl

[fly on the wall]

Owl:
Kizer, Ghost, and Major Wader and I fished last Wednesday at JB. I know kizer caught one. Barb status unknown. Ghost caught some. Definitely barbed. Major wader caught a couple. More than likely barbless. Yours truly, two. Barbs flattened. Is that the same as barbless? I know the manufacturers make hooks without barbs. Are the barbless hooks what you're talking about Owl?
BTW, keep an eye out on the board. I'm back to my Wednesday evening trips to JB. Consider yourself invited.