Smith Creek delayed harvest

[Richard]

Does anyone know what the regulations are for the new delayed harvest section of Smith Creek? Will it be open everyday or do you have to make a reservation like at Dukes? Will there be a limit to the number of people each day?

Also, how long a stretch of stream below Unicoi dam will be open under this program? If this thing turns out to be as popular as the Nantahala, this little stream will be pounded to death.

[Bill Couch]

For information on Smith Creek, call Lee Keefer @ 706 947 3112. Lee is the Fisheries Biologist who selected the stream, and suggested the (now accepted) regulations. Smith creek is being stocked out of Buford Hatchery. We put in approximately 500 fish in about 1 mile of stream. I understanding fishing there was slow initially, but should improve with time. I'm interested in feedback, but recommend patience, as we learn how to manage and maintain the new fishery.
Bill C

[Richard]

Bill,

Thanks a buch for the phone number. I want to fish it next week on my day off and needed to find out if I need to call ahead.

I truly hope that this turns out to be a success and we can have a few more places like this in the future. Good luck with the program. I think you will find it to be very popular among us fly fishermen, if all those Georgia license plates you see at the Nantahala are any indication.

Can I make a suggestion for the next place if this is a success? The Chattahoochee in Helen would be ideal since it's virtually unfishable in the warm weather due to all the tubers.

[GregC]

How about the Tallulah River for delayed harvest? It seems like some big fish could be produced there if given the chance.

[Mr T]

Bill -- I fully agree with delayed harvest on the upper Hootch at Helen and even above into the national forest. However, please leave the Tallulah alone. It already has some really nice size carry-overs and I see no point or benefit from a delayed harvest there. It's plenty large enough and cold enough to handle carry-overs without the need for delayed harvest.

However, the Coleman River is already restricted to artificials only and would appear to me to be a prime candidate for delayed harvest. It's been billed as a trophy stream but the two times I've fished it have only yielded a couple of six-inch stockers with no evidence whatsoever of those renowned trophy fish.

I'm assuming that when you set up a delayed harvest program you've already determined the stream has sufficient aquatic life to support the stockers and allow them to grow. That may be a problem on the Coleman because I could find only very limited evidence of aquatic life when I fished it. Which may also be the reason I couldn't find any trophy fish or very amny fish of any kind.

Wasn't my fishing either 'cause I was having great luck with both stockers and hold-overs on the Tallulah during that trip. Also caught a few brookies which I assume were natives and which I released.

[Jeff Jones]

You obv. were on the "other" Coleman( ha ). I think you are right, no big fish in there,hmmmmmm, . . .nope just dace and rocks. and snakes. and bears. and...and...giant man eating ticks. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[speckledtrout]

hmmm i think that as a younger flyfisherman that the delayed harvest areas are good and let's all have a winter fix on our flyfishing addiction. however i think that the coleman should not be considered for delayed harvest because of the fact that it's a wild trout stream and that's the way it should be also think about the access to that area the paramedics would have to build a new station just to provide help to all the idiots that broke there legs. The talluah on the other hand would be a great delayed harvest stream it's already pounded to death and trashed out so what is dumping a couple thousand trout in to it and giving us a place to fish going to hurt and the statement about the larger holdover fish if these fish can make it through all the bait fisherman all summer then what are a bunch of flyfisherman catching and releasing them going to hurt, with delayed harvest you are just going to have more big ones held over. does anyone have any thoughts on the public section of the soque

[Drifter]

Fellow Fishheads,

I believe the key to a successful a DH or a CR stream is "enforcement". Without the threat of law enforcement intervention, poachers will eventually pillage the stream, ruining it for the law abiding folks, ie Waters Creek.

What are the thoughts on charging a daily use fee similar to the Chattahoochee NRA? Funds could hopefully be generated to pay the salary of a ranger. I would have no problem paying $20 a day to fish a quality stream such as Smith Creek if the fish were there.

The Drifter

[Jeff Jones]

Whoa. there Drifter. I already pay a pretty good bit in lic, trout stamp, wma stamp and the like. I would consider $5 a day, but wouldn't fish it nearly as much as I do now. ( and I usually spend at Unicoi Outfitters and Wendy's when I'm there, too.) I agree that enforcement is a key need, but I think the root problem is personal ethics. We'll never have enough wardens to catch all the underhanded, bottom feeding, fish sniping, unskilled, idiots that steal this states trout. We canonly hope that stocking efforts continue in some fashion. ( if not, our wild streams would soon be " history".)

[HNeal]

$20 might be a little steep, but I do favor a fee for a GOOD stream, as long as this money goes toward enforcement. There is entirely to many out there who consider trout nothing but "free" vittles provided by the state and worthy only to caught with corn and worms. Heck, I'm in favor of limiting the use of bait to those under the age of 14 (or so). I think people should grow up and fish like a man :)

[jeffg]

Paying to fish is going to become a bigger issue every year. There are so many people that fish on what is now perceived as limited resources. One of the only ways people are going to be able to catch a "lunker" is to pay to fish a stretch of river (i.e. Soque, behind Unicoi outfitters, etc...)

If you want more enforcement on the streams you will have to pay someone to do it. In 3 years in this state I have only been checked 2 times for a lisc. One of them being on Dukes Creek. No enforcement allows for more poachers.

As we all know, people are not going to enforce themselves. It would be nice to think everyone has the moral values to do so, but it is just not going to happen. Plus, I will mention rules and regs to people who appear to be abusing them. It does not mean they are going to listen to me. In MD, we would write down lisc #, car etc..and the regulation being broken and turn it in to the Rangers. Some of the rangers would use that info to help track down poachers. Who knows if that was successful or not.

As we all know too, the population of this state is growing. Some of the headwaters of streams and stretches of rivers are ending up on private land. The landowner may realize he has a cash cow if he can charge people to fish his "trophy" water. This will push more and more people into the NFS Areas and the WMA areas which adds to more pressure on the streams, more trash in the streams and could eventually lead to less fish in the streams.

I guess after all of this rambling, what I am trying to get at is that these problems are going to go away. With more people fishing we are going to have to pay to have better enforcement. If that means charging more for a fishing/hunting lisc...so be it.

It also means people are going to
pay to fish. You won't have too, but the people who are looking to catch that trophy will more than likely find it on a private stretch somewhere than on a public stream.

[Jeff Jones]

We'll, if the future of flyfishing for trout is going to be a pay-to-play prospect, I'd beter get a better job ! I would gladly pay for a higher lic.. The water's creek idea was great. A wma stamp to fish. BUT, that lasted all season. If it's $20 a pop to fish a good stream I'd spend 2 or 3 thou. a year, which unfortunatly, I don't have. Now, you've gone and made me cry. sniff.. sniff-

[ALG]

I, personally, have only been checked one time in years of fishing in GA. However, each year I go to florida to fish for speck. trout off the beach and each year I am asked for my liscense atleast once during my one week stay.(sometimes every day) When they ask you for your liscence the DNR officer must fill out a report proving that he checked your liscence. This program could perhaps force DNR to check a certain amount of liscences each day. Just an idea,
-----ALG

[Jeff Jones]

As for not getting checked: I get checked at LEAST once a year, but usually while I'm chasing bucket-mouthed trout. It's possible that many times, the remoteness of a trout adventure makes checking lic. difficult if not unprofitable. But I really believe, we must, must, must encourage the continued stockig of our streams, or else our wildtrout will be see as the alternative for a quick supper.

[The Ole Man]

My license has been checked just 3 times in 56 years. I guess I just don't look like a guy that would fish without a license. The rest of you guys must really be gnarly!!!

[Drifter]

Fishheads,

Regarding the idea of paying to fish on private water:

This concept is becoming more popular each year. As it does, competition will keep prices down. Brigadoon is already lowering their price. My guess is the competition from Nacoochee Bend contributed to this.

My $00.02,

The Drifter

[speckledtrout]

Drifter, i know for a fact that the competiion from unicoi outfitters helped in lowering brigadoons prices. I think that even though people are starting to pay to fish is this really the route we want to take as our only fishing option. I personal think that the pay to fish fishing is for big stock trout not necessarily stupid trout. i on the other hand want to fish for wild trout in the mountains. I think we have to save the wild trout first, so we have options and are not forced to pay to fish. my $.02 speckledtrout

[Drifter]

Speck,

I too prefer to fish the wild trout. It just depends on what turns you on. Given a 20 inch brown trout from a C&R, delayed harvest stream, or a 12 inch native brown from some remote mountain stream, I'll opt for the latter.

I fished Slough Creek in Yellowstone N.P. a couple of years ago (hard to get to, but heavily fished). This is C&R water. Upon approaching the stream, you could easily see 20" cutts "porpoising" the surface. These fish were so accustom to seeing fishermen, they did not spook. When I hung one of the cutts, (with 7X tippet) the fight was on. After playing the fish for about 2 minutes, the fish practically floated to the surface. Upon examining the fish, the lips were torn, and a small brassie nymph and about 4 inches of line were hanging from its mouth. The fish acted like it knew if it gave up the fight, it would quickly be released. After catching another "well-worn" cutt, I packed up and went hiked to Soda Butte Creek. There I caught fiesty 10" cutthroats and had a lot more fun.

Don't want to start a long thread, but this is what I prefer.

The Drifter
PS -- It's halftime in Tempe so I can ramble a little longer http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif

[jeffg]

I prefer fishing for wild fish, and do not like having to pay to fish. I will however pay to fish a certain stream in Montana this fall.

The rancher started charging as of Jan 1. However, he did a ton of stream improvements on his one spring creek. He has also kept the cows off of certain stretches of the main stream, and was nice enough to put out a picnic table and an outhouse.
For 25$ a day, I think it is reasonable. Especially when I know I can go out there and catch
browns in the 18+ inch range.

Places like Armstrongs, Depuys etc... will continue to charge $150 a day...but then they have a bit of "history" behind them. The streams are of the like most people have never fished before. If you can brave the cold of Nov-March you can fish the same stretches for 50$ a day (that is how much it was a few yrs ago, may have changed by now)

But I see paying to fish as an option that is here to stay and growing. Especially on some of the more unique streams.

As trout fishing increases in popularity, so does the option of paying to fish. Trout fisherman, especially fly fisherman, have an image of spending a bunch of money. Granted within our midst there are people who can, and will, pay to fish anywhere. In that sense our own "image" could be hurting us..

The ranks have def grown since I started 14 yrs ago. I think the image of "yuppie, rich, fly-fisherman" is starting to die out. A majority of those "types" have fallen out of the scene when they realized fly fishing can A) consume you B)be more expensive than most people think, C) cannot be learned in one day, no matter how much you pay someone to teach you D) takes up more of your time than you'd care to admit E) and for me, More introspective than one imagines when you first start.

And Drifter...I know what you mean but Slough Creek. I have seen the same evidence of "scarred" fish in other C&R waters. Just don't let the PETA people find out. The will claim fish cruelty.

[Jeff Jones]

Can't let 'em go,... can't eat 'em...might as well be chained to a tree, forced to look at this wonderful, amazing world. h, but don't breath, you might inhale and brutally murder a gnat. !!! P-L-eeeeeease.

[Bill Findlay]

Jeff G
Are you talking about a spot near Cottonwood camp in Montana? Three Mile or something. I was there this summer. What a trip. My biggest was a brown over twenty on an 18 trico spinner. Not bad for a guy doing this for a little over a year. It sounds like the place. Picnic table cows outhouse and all.