View Full Version : stockers in streams for wild trout??????
04-07-99, 02:50 PM
March edition gon mag. says noontootla gets 2,900 stockers, jasus gets 300, Mountain town creek gets 9,500, swallow creek gets 3,200 a year. Now I thought all these streams were for wild trout. What's the deal,
does any body know about this?
The Ole Man
04-07-99, 06:57 PM
Wild trout in GA are about as scarce as hens teeth. If these streams did'nt get some stock fish, there would be very few in them. The ones you would find would be on the small side. Bill Couch informed us recently that 99 % of Ga's cold waters are infertile to the extent that they will carry (naturally) very few fish. Nowhere near the numbers required to meet the demand for trout fishing in GA. Sorry to have to tell you that in GA you will be fishing in a highly artificial arrangement that depends on-I believe Bill said- a million or so hatchery trout per year(some state and some federal)-maybe it was more. We'll take it-it's better than nothing. BTW-Bill didn't say where that other 1% is located http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
04-07-99, 07:44 PM
Thanks, but what about jj's book(TROUT FISHING in north georgia) that says those streams were once stocked, but now recieves no stocking. Do you think he was just misinformed?
04-07-99, 09:55 PM
I would think catch & release, and barbless hooks would help maintain a wild trout population(it seems legitimate). Why do we not see many C & R streams in georgia.
The Ole Man
04-07-99, 10:35 PM
I don't know the truth. I hear about access feuds for instance over Mountaintown. Does that mean the stock truck is allowed thru the gate? Or does it mean that lower section gets stockers and the upper doesn't? I wouldn't think the upper section is wild fish because I hear about too many people catching and hauling the fish out of there. If they were wild fish I would think some protection would be in place. I've never seen anyone say ok this is wild and this is stocked except when it comes to Brookies and I think I have seen some info on that-the headwaters of the Coleman i.e. The rest of it is such a stew of genetic material, maybe no one knows whats wild anymore. Wild is hard to define. I've seen someone say well wild is naturally reproducing fish. If Tommy Hunter takes fish from the Hooch and puts them in his pond, and they begin reproducing, do we grant his fish "wild" status. Some people say it is "remote" streams. What's remote? Something hard to get to? For whom? An Ole Man or a chopper? A weekly hiker or a twice a year day tripper. This is an open door for about 25 more posts http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif. Why not many C&R streams. My opinion: 1. The fish may require feeding which costs money. 2. The fishing requires enforcement and protection which costs money. 3. There are a lot more people in Ga that want to catch and keep trout than there are that want to let them go back. These fishermen have reps in the state gov. too. Frequently with stronger influence than C&R folks. 4. It's much easier and less expensive and less trouble to just grow them in the hatchery and haul them to the water.
04-08-99, 12:19 PM
Noontoola is wild, stream - bred trout.
There are usually sections of any river or creek that get stockers.
Usually the lower portios of a creek ( where it's biggest ) get the stocked fish . Upper Coleman, Noontoola, Upper Boggs creek, Jones creek, and the small tribs. of most sreams ae filled with wild fish. Although the OM is right, ...unless it's brookies , they were all stocked years ago, so somewhere down the line they were hatchery raised. But it doesn't make a bit of difference when they rise to my #16 Caddis !
If you fish Noontoola , you will be convinced of the trout's wild status ! They are def. not stockedand book has proved right for me almost 100 % of the time. Big trout in Boggs, though? Not in the public section ! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
04-08-99, 12:27 PM
Yea I know, and there is even some fun in catching a stocker trout, but where's the challenge. There is something cery special about fishing a stream that ain't seen a stocking truck in years, and sneaking up to a bathtub size pool and flicking a 10'Foot cast only to pull out a "wild" 10"inch trout. I think what constitutes what a "wild" trout is is strickly opinion. My opinion states that any trout that can reproduce should be allowed to reproduce whether any one thinks it's wild or not. Reproduction in georgia seems to be a special thing, right, so we should realize when it is occuring and where there is potential, and then we should protect it at all costs, right!!!
04-08-99, 12:30 PM
Ole Man that last one was about your post.
The Ole Man
04-08-99, 01:22 PM
It would be nice if the commitment for the cost was in place. I don't think it is. Poaching alone is a huge problem. This was brought home a few years back when Waters Creek was cleaned out by poachers and a ranger lives on the place. Folks on this board have repeatedly pointed out seeing people fishing out of season on closed streams and fishing illegally on artificial only streams. I fished on Smiths creek about 2 weeks ago and ran across 2 piles of corn dumped on the bank and its artificial only until ,I think April or May 15, and the enforcement on Smiths is probably better than most places. Just don't know who would guard these streams if C&R and barbless only was instituted. You would probably see a howl from the catch and keepers as well if C&R became too widespread. They consider keeping the fish a "right" that is not to be denied. Think there has been and still is a tendency to put most all of GA's trout fishing in the hands of the hatchery and that may very well be the only workable solution. "Protected at all costs" is a great ideal in print-thats a long haul from reality.
04-08-99, 01:55 PM
Those streams that are known for stocked trout are well,....known for stocked trout. Now on the other hand as I was saying, it seems those streams that have already proven to have successful reproduction taking place should be placed under restriction, like they did with Noontootla creek. Why will they not place some size limits or maybe a 1 or 2 or even a 3 fish limit. Some kind of limit is should be placed on a few of these streams. I'm not trying to take away c&k, but morons should NOT be allowed to take trebles baited with 3 peices of corn and accidently catch an 8 fish limit out of a brook trout stream and k*** them....right?
After all that's 8 less reproductive fish you have in that stream. Just something to **** on.
The Ole Man
04-08-99, 02:42 PM
I agree. I would even like to see a trophy section on the Hooch like they have on the Hiwassee. The limit is 1 fish per day over certain length in that section and artificial only-don't recall exact inches. Hooch has an artificial only section but no number limit and have seen it abused frequently with bait. Since the Hooch already has an artificial only section, it would only require the addition of a few words to the regs to specify 1 fish and a length for it. Just saying wishing for and getting and then enforcing are hard to bring together.
04-08-99, 03:03 PM
That's a great idea! Who do we need to contact? That section is from GA 20 to GA 141, and there is even a shoal area that is wadable, as well as other parts of the river furthur downstream in the main flow. My concern here is the scowering affect of the dam on this area. Do you think there is enough food and spawning area for the fish to thrive there?????????? Is there a serious chance that in the long run this may happen or am I just crazy???
The Ole Man
04-08-99, 03:11 PM
I suppose it would start with the Georgia Trout Management Team, beginning with Bill Couch.
04-08-99, 03:34 PM
Where's he at? Bill are you out there???
04-08-99, 04:01 PM
Should me or you post about it in the "ask the dnr" section, and see what bill or somebody at the "dnr" would think? Just a wunderin?
How much luck have you had on those streams you mentioned. (i.e. Upper Coleman, Noontoola, Upper Boggs creek, Jones creek, and the small tribs.) What flies worked, how you fished'em, ect. And don't worry, I'll release them.
04-09-99, 12:22 AM
Sorry , but I fish with those **** barbed hooks and am but an amatuer trouter.
.....i wouldn't have mentioned them unless they were good streams for me. Unlike some folks I don't keep secres or 8 ball folks depending on my mod, or whatever the heck makes folks at NGTO say the things they do at times.
04-09-99, 12:13 PM
I too qualify as an amuetur or even less, bet you've been trout fishing longer than me. I am trying to decide whether or not to fish with the barbless hooks, it seems like I lose more trout in those close quarters on 8-10'foot casts though. Any help?
If you're losing a lot of fish on short lines you may be striking too fast. If you're hooking the very edge of their mouth you may just be pulling the hook loose. You might try delaying the strike slightly when you're working that close, especially if you're fishing downstream or on top. It's when nymphing that it's hard to strike too soon.
04-09-99, 03:10 PM
http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gifThanks man, I'm usually fishing dries upstream(nymphs downstream) when I'm on those small streams fishing in close qaurters, cause it's hard to stay hidden that close up from the trout and still spot them, I try to stay low and just flip it, so I can see the dry. It's hard to spot the trout and still stay low enough and not spook, so do you think dries or wets are better when you don't know where they're at.
I've been losing the fish after I have them hooked and had them on for a little bit. They wiggle right off the hook. I'm a novice at all this.
p.s.....So it ain't the hook? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Can't say it's not the hook, but it's probably not so much whether it's barbless or not as other things.
Those frisky mountain trout are good at unhooking themselves though. They move so fast it's hard to keep a tight line. I am unorthodox and don't use the reel as I can manage line faster and better with small fish by hand. Bad habit if you hook a big one though.
If you're fishing dry upstream, you might try the half-a-beat delay in striking if you think you're striking plenty fast. Usually fishing upstream you're okay as you pull the fish into them, but in clear water there is a tendency to see _something_ early enough you can strike before they have it. Lord knows I've jerked enough flies out of their mouths, feeling only a slight hesitation, or nothing.
You're always going to lose fish on nymphs. That's that inherent delay in striking by feel (the shorter the line the better) combined with the difference in the way they take underwater, and when fishing downstream, the tendency to pull the fly out of their mouth. I fish soft-hackles down and across a lot, and probably only hook half the takes and a few of those pull loose too.
Also, make sure you strike by pulling on the line with your left hand as you raise the rod. That's the best way to take up the slack immediately.
After all this discussion, yesterday was a terible day hooking for me. The first half dozen fish or so didn't not have to be released, they took care of that for me. It was the wind, has to be, and I'm sticking to that story!
Just thought I'd bring this thread back to the top....it's funny reading old things once in a while......did I really type that ??? !!!! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
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