View Full Version : Questions !Help me out here tying fools.
#1 : Ok, so how do I know which feather to buy for tying hackles. I knw Hoffman and the like , but what are the generic names for the right ( floating) kind....they don't just call them " chicken feathers" do they ? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
#2 : If a $11 bobbin doesn't turn easily, should I wax the pins that hold the thread a little ?
C : What kind of flies can I tie with a partridge skin. (colored or brown)???
#4 : For a tan EHC, do I buy a Ginger neck, or what( color) ?
and E : can anyone e-mail me a few good sites with recipes and pics?
I know I'm askin alot of ya'll.
Any help is DESP. NEEDED ! hehe http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
1. For dry flies you can use any rooster neck or genetic saddle. The idea is stiffness of the barbs. Hen hackle is way too soft (see #3).
2. What I would suggest is to grasp each leg of the bobbin, sorta like a wishbone, and stretch them apart. This will reduce the tension on the spool.
3. (or C.) Wet flies mostly also they do well for things like crayfish pinchers, etc.
4. I use a brown, or if it is a green body, I use a grizzly or dun (in other words, whatever I have or is already out and close at hand) The color of the hackly is not real critical, just sort of "fits" with the body and/or wing. The color of the body and wing are far more important.
You don't want that bobbin to turn too easily. You want it to be able to hang, putting tension on the thread while you hunt around in your materials and things, but you do want it to turn with less tension than will break 8/0 thread.
Those partridge skins are one of the historic sources of feathers for tying soft-hackles. I tend to use generic hen necks as the color range is better, but the markings on partridge are nice.
04-18-99, 11:23 AM
#1 Make it simple, don't use hackle.
#C Partrige also works very well for nymph legs, tails on wets, collars on wets, and legs on caddis larva. It's a very versatile feather.
Michael has a book I sent him and it explains some of this stuff. Ask him if you can look at it.
Try this site http://flyanglersonline.com/
and go into the beginners section and then beginning fly tying. It has many different patterns with a great discription and pics. Also Al Campbell is real easy to get a hold of via email if you need to. I think part 24 involves the EHC.
So you finally got a vise.
1. Check out the necks at B****Pro. They are in a clear bag and cost $17. For the money, the quality is not bad. I think they got them from Metz. Better than spending $40-$55.
Get a grizzly or brown to start. Probably the most used colors. Most people start with a neck because of the wide range of sizes.
Try the 1/4 saddle Hoffman. Around $20. This hackle is a better quality but it only offers a few sizes (12-16). It should say on the label.
Partridge is used on soft hackles. Lots of other uses. A complete skin is expensive. I'd get a small pack ($2-$3) to start. These packs have a lot of fluff and junk but its a good way to try the stuff.
At the next tying fling, ask to use different tying materials. We had enough material there to tie 500,000 flies.
I'm totally taken aback whenever you ask a serious question. It's fine. Just takes me a minute to adjust.
for patterns, try:
and this great board for questions on fly tying (by beginners and pros) and answers by authors and pros like A.K.Best and Al Beatty:
Stiff hackle for drys (capes, saddles)
Indian necks and chinese necks are cheaper but are poor quality, usually
Hen feathers are a must for wets and nymphs. I love 'em on woolies (I know this is not a major fly for you).
Partridge is great for legs and soft hackles. On these, strip one side of the feather.
The Ole Man
04-18-99, 05:25 PM
Don't know what all you want to tie-but you seem interested in elk caddis. As Wdn says, you can tie no-hackles. You can tie an Al Troth no hackle elk caddis with just a dry fly hook, some dubbing and a piece of elk. Straight ,fine elk is sometimes hard to find , so I would recommend a piece of coastal deer hair instead. It is fine, straight and even to the point that it doesn't require you to own a stacker. A bag of dubbing is about 1.50 and a piece of coastal deer about 2.50 , add the cost of your hooks. If you want to hackle the body, call Cabelas and ask for their "Fly Fishing " catalog-this is a separate book from their general catalog. In it, you can buy packages of Hoffman dry fly hackle in single colors already plucked from the cape for $6.50-enough to tie 72 (6 doz.) flys(you have to pay shipping though). If you want more hackle than this, I would get a Metz micro-barb #2 saddle for $20. This ties primarily 12-14 but usually has some 16 and besides a lot of fishermen cut off the bottom hackle from an EHC so it always lands right side up and floats lower to the surface. If you trim them this way, the hackle size is not critical-within reason. Unicoi and Fish Hawk have micro-barb saddles-don't know about b****pro. E-mail me if you need more help. Jack
04-18-99, 07:19 PM
Owl and others,
While we're talking capes and necks and such......
After sinking your hard earned dollars into a high quality cape, take care of it. Store it in a airtight container and/or drop a piece of cedar in the container to deter those tiny aphids. They'll destroy a cape if given a chance.
Ditto what the Ole Man says regarding EHC. Leave the hackle out. The X-caddis I tied for the swap is another hackle-less pattern that is quite effective.
Also I very seldom use elk hair on the EHC. Coastal deer hair is much neater, especially when you start tying size 16 and smaller caddis. For size 12 EHC I use good old Georgia whitetail deer hair. Elk hair is much too coarse for me.
Well, as far as hackle goes Owl, My suggestion would be to stay away from capes. They are basicly a waist of money. I made the switch not to long ago to hoffman saddles. You can get a 1/2 saddle #2 from hook and hackle that will tie more flies in the size you want than most $65 capes. I could kick myself for buying anything else in the past. The long hackles also make for extreemly easy rapping. A #2 saddle from hoffman will offer you tons of hackle in the #18-12 size range with a few 10s.
As I climb out from under the mountian of info that has been heaped upon me( that's a VERY GOOD thing! ), I will have to have a few days to soak it all in. I managed a cheap vise and some limited materials( hmmm, I still need to run to Wal-Mart for the Bondini...). I bought some coastal deer hair in Olive ( cause it was purdy! ) and I think I'll try a few Olive wing EHC for fun( who knows?). My next "?" is what to do with the Elk hair I bought that looks like it was run over by a car or something....it's all crinkly....
Thanks for the input everyone !
Owl and Michael,
E-mail me your address and I will mail you some Georgia white-tail deer hair. No bench is compleat without it.
The Ole Man
04-19-99, 12:10 AM
I've got some of that coarse, curly elk hair too. If you figure out what to do with it-let me know. May have to lay it to rest with that skunk tail I had.
I think I'll use it to put little mustaches on my ba$$ plugs ! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Hey owl et al-
You might want to check this url for some info on selecting hackles that I wrote a while back for another list:
and which Martin Jorgensen adapted for his web offering.
It may prove of some assistance to the beginning tyer.
Thanks all. i got some Hackle Bits and they are great ! I also took a shot at making a tying bench. It's not totally square, it's not really fancy or pretty, but dad-gum, it serves the purpose, and I'm no carpenter for sure, either!
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