C&R

[BT]

Saw someting interesting at Floyd College Sun. Accordind to the sign the only fish you are allowed to release in their lake are Bass, if you don't want to keep the panfish you catch you are supposed to throw them up on the bank! Wouldn't PETA love that?

[CHUNKER]

Where is Floyd College? How is the bream fishing there, any size to them? Can you put a float tube in it? Thanks in advance.

[BT]

Its on hwy 27 south between Rome and Cedartown it will be on the left, it has some very good bream, b****and crappie in it, I even caught a 13 pound carp on my fly rod once. Sun. I had the lake to myself but there was a lot of wind and I think the front had shut the fish off, I didn't catch anything. You can put anything you want in there (float tube, boat ect.) just no outboards.

[BT]

Chunker
Also if you get over in this part of the state you might want to try the Rocky Mtn. PFD its on 27 north of Rome a fairly new area with some great fishing. A friend of mines' son caught two b****on his first two cast last year for a total of 16 pounds, not too bad. I heard that 27 fish in excess of 8 ponds each were caught opening day last year, I plan on getting in on some of that myself this year.

[The Ole Man]

BT
Fisheries Mgt.biologist told my uncle the same thing about his farm pond. He said to keep all bream and return all bass. This to keep predator fish pop. high and to keep the prolific bluegill from re- producing to a level that stunts them all. He did say to return the very largest of bluegill as they are fry predator as well. Don't pretend to know anything about this myself, but his pond has some mgihty big bream in it to be so small (only abt an acre or so). Would like to hear more if someone knows.

[BT]

I've seen ponds that had so many bream in them that the large ones were 3 inch fish but the b****were fat and happy and very hard to catch. The lake at the college is a fair sized lake 30+ acers (guess) they closed it to fishing for a year about 2 years ago, I don't know if they did something to it or not but the fishing has not been the same. I caught 74 crappie out of this lake one afternoon dabbling a small (sz 14) woolie bugger, but I will admit I didn't fish it much last year, I worked too much overtime.

[Rod]

I'll chime in in agreement with jack et al. It only makes sense that bream take over if not "controlled," you have to watch crappie as well.

Charilie Elliot certainly has its share of large fish of all the species discussed here. I've seen folks take every fish they catch and haven't noticed much of a drop off in numbers caught over the past few years.

Now I'll generally throw those *****fingerling bream to the banks to feed the snakes but I don't think it is nec. at C.E. Is it due to the fertilizer?--that is the fish are always so big, why?

Rod

[BT]

Rod
I love big bream where is Charilie Elliot?

[Rod]

BT et al.,
Take 20 east to hwy 11--I forget the exit--47 or 49. Take 11 South or West follow 11 7 miles and the entrance is on the left. It is not real conspicuous so keep an eye out.
don't forget to check in. NightOwl would be happy to go with you, but he won't go with me for some reason--wonder if it's cause I feed the snakes?

Rod

[The Ole Man]

Rod
Now you've done it! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[Rod]

Jack, do you go there too?
By god we need to go together---do you do it from a tube?
Rod

[KB]

Ya'll should try Lake Rabun too, if you never have. I've pulled a hefty Bluegill out of there a time or two. Sometimes you might even get a stout little Smallmouth as an adder.
Biggest problem with that lake is the *****jet skiers.

[NightOwl]

Hmmmmm..... thought I offered to show you my " secret" lure there, in an eariler post Rod-ster ? ?
As far as a tube - you can walk the banks of most ponds and I'm sure when you get in your tube, you'll cast right to the bank!! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif If you throw all the small bream up on the bankls, what are the b****going to eat?? The small ponds don't have gizzard shad, ya know ? Sure there are a few minnows but it would take a barrel full to fill up one of the 12 lb.......uh......nevermind. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[Rod]

N.O.
I don't "feed the snakes" as much as I do at other places because the little suckers just aren't as plentyful. Hell, I hooked a b****in there with hand sized bream still in their gullet. We should fish it together some day
You ff it right?

[NightOwl]

Uh.... not really. ( snicker) I usully use spinning gear and small lures or plastic worms. I was thinking of flyfishing it some this spring. I got 50 or so on Monday, and the weather wasn't that good. Saw a guy catch a 6lb. one on a jig/pig, outta stump.

Owl
praying for warm days

[Ted]

After reading this thread, I am compelled to offer my humble opinion on the subject of C&R and point out some good information on the subject. (I apologize in advance for length).
I first would like to recommend that interested anglers (no...all anglers)try to get a copy of an article that appeared in April 1997 in the Georgia Outdoor News(yes,...the GON). It was written by two GA Fisheries Biologists (A. Mauldin and Ed Bettross)and is entitled "Catch and Release: Are We Releasing an Effective Management Tool?" It is geared toward b@ss management but has concepts applicable to understanding ALL fishery populations. I won't attempt to try and duplicate what it says, but it does, among other things, introduce the concepts of carrying capacity and natural mortality, two very important ideas that have an influence on fish populations. In short, a given body of water (lake, river, stream) has a limit to the amount (pounds)of fish that be supported there. This is a biological fact. Well-performed studies have documented that measured NATURAL (non-angling) death rates (due to disease, predation, old age...)in lightly fished and unfished populations of largemouth b@ss ranged from 40-70%. Fish populations will carry on despite this because of the natural cycles of reproduction and growth in the surviving fish. What does this mean for fishing? Simple,in this example there would be a potential 40-70% of fish that will die in a given period of time. This rate is influenced by density dependent forces - the number of natural deaths is highest when populations are highest and declines when populations do the same. In theory you could harvest, by angling, 40-70% of fish in that population and not affect the population greater than natural mortality alone would have over time.
OK, what is the point to all this? I do have one. A certain amount of mortality will occur in any fish population, with good management techiques using creel limits, size limits, seasons, etc. angling related mortality (harvest) can be a valuable part of what would otherwise occur by natural mortality, while providing recreational opportunity. C and R is an ethical practice but may not in ALL situations be the best and only management tool, or course of action. (Reread last statement). The best management plan on any given body of water is often very specific to the conditions in that system. The "why don't they do such-and-such on this stream TOO" is often touched upon in this forum. All management methods don't work everywhere.

This was kind of lengthy, but I hope that a couple of points are "taken home" - 1)Harvest isn't necessarily bad, as long as it isn't overharvest. Harvest and size regs need to be dynamic and updated when necessary. 2) Realize it or not, anglers make population management decisions daily when they decide to release or harvest a legal size fish. Biologists and fisheries managers guide anglers through this process by establishing harvest regulations that balance quality and quantity. 3) C and R can be a great tool, and an admirable lifestyle ( BTW I practice it when trout fishing) but please don't dismiss or disparage the occasional keeping of a fish or two when permitted.
My thanks to Bubba and Ed for the information in their article on which I based this rant.

[Hooker]

Ted,
These are all excellent points. There is a misconception among many fishermen that trout can be stockpiled with C&R. "Release it today, and catch it next year when it is larger". However, every population goes through an annual bottleneck which reduces the numbers back to carrying capacity. In the summer on the Chattahoochee, food is plentiful, and the river can support thousands of extra fish. However, in the winter when food becomes scarce, only the fittest trout will survive, and the remaining numbers will equal the carrying capacity again.
One of the big questions on the Hooch right now concerning fish populations, is what happened to the larger fish? Not too long ago, the Hooch produced both Rainbows and Browns in the 5 to 15lb class, but it hasn't done it in recent years with the exception of the occasional "canyon monster" at the dam.
Is there too many trout in the Hooch eating all the food and not leaving enough for the larger fish? Is there too much fishing pressure pulling out the holdovers before they get big? Are Rapalas too effective and too damaging on larger trout? Is there a problem with water temperature and pollution?
Wish I knew, cause I sure do miss those great ol' biguns.

Hooker

[Tommy Hunter]

I have been reading this thread with interest. I know most people here support C&R for trout, and I do to to a point. Trout in Georgia already live in a restricted environment in relation to the amount of food available and the range in which they have to find it. Therefore the carrying capacity is quite low on streams with natural reproduction. On the few wild streams that have a fairly large trout population that receives little or no fishing pressure, the fish are extremely small. It's very simple, the more fish, the less food, the smaller the fish. Such is even more pronounced in ponds. My aunt in south Georgia has five ponds that have been around for fifty years. We used to catch some HUGE b****there. We'd keep small bass, all the bream and crappie we could catch, and the largest catfish. The ponds always produced. About ten years ago we started C&R on b****to see if we could grow a 20 pounder. We also quit fishing for panfish and catfish. The older locals that used to fish for food regularly died off. The results were ponds full of 1 pound bass, 6-inch panfish, and brown bullheads. Two of the ponds have been drained and rebuilt and ready for re-stocking. The largest b****found was a four pounder in ponds that used to regularly produce 15 pounders. Carrying capacity is a real thing that must be payed close attention to. Smaller fish populations equal bigger fish. No doubt that is a lot of the problem in the 'hooch. I know for a fact that there are more fish in that river than any in Georgia (possibly the southeast). In those situations C&R is detrimental. It has been known in deer management for years that if a healthy proportion of the female sector of the population is not harvested, the quality of bucks, does, and fawns quickly deteriorates as the amount of food decreases. I support C&R, but I do not oppose people harvesting fish either. I believe 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish. It doesn't hurt if the other 90% of fishermen keep every fish they catch, especially in high production fish such as panfish.

My $0.02 worth.

Tommy

[CHUNKER]

Some years back I read an article in the IN FISERMAN magazine that spoke of selective harvesting of fish,Which is on any given body of water,keeping the most plentifull species and of that species the ones that have the most numbers in a certin size range.Example:if you are fishing a pond that has a good population of bream in the 7"-9"range and a few larger ones, keep those in the 7"-9" range,and release the larger and smaller ones. Sounds a lot like slot limits dosen't it? Our state has imposed slot limits on certin bodies of water with good results,why not do this as an individual effort to improve your favorite body of water?

[Rod]

Great thread--this is the C&R stuff that makes sense.....
Night Owl-I was thinking of heading to C.E. sat. but I haven't been on the hooch in a while and thought I'd better try Island Ford in the morning--but if they release in the morning or tonight I'll be at C.E..

[NightOwl]

I'm working Sat. Be sure to try Upper Raliegh ! and maybe even Fox. e-mail me sometime.

[NightOwl]

If the other 90% keep every fish they catch in spring when most fish are easy targets...............

I agree - keeping fish is fine as long as you respect the population levels present. However, I do not subscribe to the theory that if I let a 2 lb. wild fish go, he will be dead by next year. ( I know no one ever said that, exactly....I'm just sayin'....) Obv. if you have 1000 bream in a 1 acre pond, you've got troubles. However the org. conversation was on C. Elliot where the DNR keeps VERY close tabs on fish populations and does an excellent job of setting slot limits and regulations for individual ponds and lakes.

Rod, when we goin???