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Hooker has mentioned that he fishes for gar in August. Why fish for gar in august? Is it because low water concentrates them? or perhaps, the gar congregate to spawn?
Or, is it by default?
Just wondering and enquiring minds need to know. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Regards, DA
David,
It's just a timing thing. In August, the hot weather usually slows the bite on other species, but activates the gar. Plus there is low clear water, and the gar congregate behind dams.
However, this summer I'm making gar my primary target species, and I'm trying to learn better ways to catch them with a flyrod. The garfly made out of nylon rope is working OK, but last week, we missed several big fish when the filaments just didn't tangle good enough to hold them. These are all long nose gar, and some are 20lbs+.
Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Hooker
Drifter
06-03-99, 11:09 PM
Hookerdoode,
Is white the best color rope to use or would a yellow nylon ski-rope be a better choice? Also how long is the "skirt?" Better yet, if your gonna be at the Fling, can you bring one so I can get an idea how it's tied.
Anyone wanting a closeup look at this ugly critter, Ba$$ Pro Shop has one in their tank.
Speaking of ugly -- My son caught a freshwater eel on a trotline last weekend on a tributary of the Flint River. This is my first time seeing one of these thangs. It's nasty looking!
Drifter
Drifter,
White is all I've ever used, and it works well, but I am experimenting with different colors. If I find something better, I'll let you know.
Ski rope is too coarse. I use the soft 1/2" braided rope from Ace Hardware. It has a very fine fiber that does a good job of tangling. Undo the braid until you get down to a section of straight fiber.
I usually use a 12" piece, double it, stick it through a swival, and double it again. This makes the fly 3". Once in the swival, I'll whip a collar, add some flashabou, and glue on some eyes. Before you fish it, shread the fibers between your fingers.
I'll bring a couple with me to the Fling.
Looking forward to seeing ya!
Hooker
Hooker, can't say I can help you much. I suspect that many hits to get a hookup is basically the way it is with gar.
My experience is mostly on Florida Gar in the Tamiami trail. Those things will snip hair off a bunny dahlberg in no time, but they sure are fun to catch. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
My fishing partner, L.J., and I have been discussing the use of nylon stocking material as an addition to gar flies. We have yet to try it but he has tied up some patterns that do show some potential. They incorporate tandem hooks and the use of a skirt made of strips of nylon hosiery.
I have been experimenting with using craft fur tails that include the backing. I make dahlbergs with strips of craft fur instead of the usual bunny tail. Unfortunately, I have yet had a chance to try them out on our toothy quarry.
Hope this helps.
Regards, DA
I forgot to mention a couple of things-
1. I had the opportunity to study a gar taking fish this past winter. The fish was real slow from the cold weather and I got a really good look at the process. Anyway, the gar will usually take his prey in the middle and then orient him for swallowing. The other feeding strategy is to nip the fly in the tail to disable it. So, the first strike felt by the angler is the fly being seized in the middle or the tail being nipped.
For the former, I recommend that all gar flies have a hook somewhere in the middle. For the nippers, I think that a trailing hook doesn't hurt but rely mainly on the fly fibres getting caught up in the teeth.
My observations suggest that gar can't feel what they have while it is in the bill. One gar I was toying with took my small minnow imitation cross-wise and held it for at least a minute without detecting it as a fake! He probably would haveheld it longer, but I tried the jerk at the time. It seems that delaying the strike may provide a hookup in the mouth proper.
The few gar that I've seen caught on a plastic worm had been hooked in the mouth. In each case, a deliberate delay helped to place the hook where it could do the most good.
Of course, the long-nose gar may have different feeding habits and your mileage may vary http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Oops, forgot the second observation.Too early in the morning, I guess. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Anyway, it's this:
White is the only colour ever mentioned by anyone writing about gar flies. I've had them hit predominantly yellow dahlbergs as well as black ones in the evening. I've also caught quite a few on an olive and white glades minnow.
I do think that colour doesn't matter much and it is the action of the fly that is important.
Regards, DA
Gar chasers,
Do you protect your tippets/leaders when using gar flies? Seems like all those teeth would have an easy time cutting your fly off, depending on how they strike the fly. Hooker, I'm also looking forward to seeing your gar fly at the fling. A few weeks back, Georgia Outdoor life did a special about gar fishing and they used a fly similar to what you described, albeit fished with a spinning rod...
achja
David and achja,
My experience with gar and live bait is that they grab it with their bill, chomp it a few times to disable it, and than swim off and swallow it. I switched to a smaller hook (#10) that I have set up in tandem. I've even thought about going to a gang of small trebles. Larger hooks seem to loop around the bill instead of digging in.
Also, I've noticed that if gar aren't real agressive, they will trail the bait and even swim beside it without taking it. I think maybe the absence of scent and electrical danger impulses might sometimes cause a hesitency in the strike.
Achja, I usually use a braided tippet instead of mono. I haven't had one bite through it yet, and they don't seem to be line shy. Also, this fly can easily be tied on a 1/4oz jig for use with a spinning rod.
Hooker
Hooker wrote:
"My experience with gar and live bait is that they grab it with their bill, chomp it a few times to disable it, and than swim off and swallow it. I switched to a smaller hook (#10) that I have set up in tandem. I've even thought about going to a gang of small trebles. Larger hooks seem to loop around the bill instead of digging in."
I have to agree with you on hook size. I much prefer small thin hooks, since they do give better purchase by providing better penetration in the bill.
I'm not real devoted to trebles. I think that they tend to work against each other and that the design does not provide good purchase compared to a single hook. They also tear the heck out of the fish during the struggle and the release, even if they are barbless. And, there is the safety concern, I don't want to be casting trebles on a fly rod. Anyone that does ought to be certified as a menace to himself and society http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
I've noticed that many fly rod lure designers that start with trebles and doubles tend to settle for singles after awhile. They find that the trebles don't provide any hooking advantage and add significant "negative baggage" to the matter.
Regards, DA
Achja-
I've caught gar using a standard tippet that tested at 6-8lbs. Occasionally, I lose one to fraying but it seems to be within statistical parameters for non-toothed fish, so I don't worry about it too much. If it bothers you, you can use long shank hooks and/or a shock tippet. I imagine 12 inches of 20-30 lb of medium hard mono (Bulk Ande or Trilene Big Game) should do quite nicely.
When I use a shock tippet, I go to a saltwater leader constuction, basically Lefty's halving formula. I start with 4 feet of 30 #, 2 feet 25 #, 1 foot 20 #, 2 feet 8 # and 1 foot 20-30 shock (for a six to eight weight). I use bloods throughout until the cl****tippet which uses a small bimini loop on either end. The top bimini is blood knotted to the 20 lb and the lower one is either attached by a blood knot (20 #) or an allbright (30 #).
The reason I use different knots for the varying # tests is that blood knots require similar diameters while Allbrights work best with dissimilar sized diameters.
Regards, DA
David,
I wasn't loosing them to fraying line, but instead the rope fiber was pulling out of their teeth if they kept thier mouth open. I'm using Fireline for a tippet which is made out of Kevlar.
David,
I agree with you about the trebles. I had a chance to work with a school of 10lb+ gar today and try some things. They were all receptive to the fly. I'm using white rope fibers with a black synthetic hair back and green flashabou. The fly got chomped 13 times, and I tangled four. The hooks were not a factor since all the gar grabbed the bait too far back. Also, I found that the gar were more aggressive on a bait that was scented. Also, some of the gar swam around with their bill opened after they got tangled, and most of them eventually pulled off. I tried to give them some slack to encourage them to close thier bill, but they kept it open.
I'm tying more flys tonight, and I'm adding a set of dumb bell eyes to get the fly down quicker. Also, I'm doubling the amount of rope fiber so I can get a better tangle.
We'll see how this works tomorrow.
dredger
06-09-99, 02:51 PM
I just bought a gar lure made by Jack Barnett at Duluth Outdoors. Jack was featured in a Georgia Outdoor News article in August '98.
It's got a bullet shated head made out of something like balsa wood. It painted with silver scales and eyes so it looks like a bait fish. The usual 5 inches of fraid nylon trails from the head.
I am going to get a 7 or 8 wt rod and give it a try this weekend.
Tight lines and bent rods!!!
Hooker- I think we crossed wires- I was merely stating my own personal experience regarding the use of light line for gar.
While reviewing this thread, I noticed that neither one of us had answered ACHJA's previous query and so, I sent a response to his long neglected post.
I'm not a real enthusiastic fan of kevlar. I haven't used it except to tie flies and I have a canoe made of the stuff. My experience suggests that the material is not really resistant to abrasion. It also appears to suck up water which suggests, at least to me, that it might weaken when wet.
A few people have posted in the alt. paddlesports that kevlar is not very resistant to abrasion. My experiences, at least as a canoe material, tend to confirm this.
I can categorically state that the stuff sucks up water like there is no tommorow. Once the gel coat went, the canoe gained quite a bit of mass. A true bummer considering I paid a premium for the light weight. While it gained weight, I found that the soaked areas were appreciably weaker and felt punky. It got so bad that I had to relaminate.
My biggest concern on the use of kevlar as fishing line is its ability to cut flesh easily. I have enough knicks on my hands from mono-I certainly don't want something that can do a better job. I also worry about the kevlar cutting fish flesh.
As I stated earlier my kevlar experiences are in other contexts and that maybe, kevlar fishing line is treated in order to minimize the shortcomings of the base material.
What are your experiences with the material as a fishing line?
Regards, DA
David,
I really like the Fireline because of the sensitivity, longer casts, and strength. However, knots are sometime suspect, and must be judiciously checked. Also, like you said, abrasion resistence may not be the best, and I've found that I have to frquently cut off the first few feet to eliminate some rough areas. However, for my applications, the positives far outweigh the negatives. I've pulled some big fish out of some places with it, where mono would have failed.
Most of my line breaks occur on the hook set, because I keep forgetting that Fireline doesn't stretch, and since F=MA which = broken line especially if M=large fish. As a result, I frequently put a six foot leader on the Fireline to add a little give.
Hey Dredger,
Does Jack's fly float? Also, how much frayed nylon does it have on it?
Hooker, aree they're b@ss near those gar......a 10# gar and some 2 lb. river b****o the ol 7ft.4wt. sounds like fun!
Owl
dredger
06-10-99, 10:00 AM
Check out this web site devoted to gar!!http://www.megsinet.net/~garman/
dredger
06-10-99, 10:31 AM
Hooker
The lure is sold in several versions, unweighted (which I bought) for fly fishing, and several weighted choices.
I suspect that the unweighted version will sink a little after it gets water logged.
The unweighted version has 5 inches of nylon and the others have 6 inches. Maybe this extra couple of inches of nylon will help tangle the bills of the fish that have been getting off of your 3 inch version.
The web page I posted previously has a link to a site with a pattern based on a Dahlberg that uses pantyhose strips and hooks, but I like the simplicity of the frayed rope and not having to dig hooks out of the beasts!!
I caught 9 b****and 9 gar today. The biggest b****was 3.5lbs, and the biggest gar was 12lbs.
I did put 100% of the gar that bit the fly in the boat though, so the new fly design is working. I went with a six inch rope fiber body and tripled the amount of fiber over the original fly. Also, I brushed the fiber out to get max separation of the filaments. In addition, I added some dumb bell eyes to get the fly down quicker.
Now the fly is too heavy to throw when it gets wet even with my 8wt, so I have to back off a little on the size.
The one problem I was having, was trying to get the fly to the big gar without the little ones taking it first. I saw some 15-20 pounders today that looked like submarines, but they were surrounded by an entourage of smaller fish that kept snatching the fly out of their mouths. It sure gets exciting when one of those big subs turns and starts tracking the fly.
Makes me go UDN...UDN
One more interesting thing happened today with the gar.... I usually handle them by just grabbing their beak. However, one got away from me today in the boat, and gave me a pretty good bite on the leg.
After wiping off the blood with a fresh gar fly, I did conclude that fresh human blood does make an effective bait scent for gar.
However, this is not a recommended technique!
Windknot
06-11-99, 10:10 AM
David/Hooker et all,
I've been using Fireline for around two years on a couple spinning outfits, and will share some observations. The light outfit has 6 lbs., the medium-heavy has 14 lbs., and the light outfit has been used much more than the heavier one.
Of course I expected easy casting, fast sinking and incredible sensitivity, but I didn't expect the durability that I'm seeing. After a year or so, the light line lost its hard factory finish, and is now, in fact, fuzzy. I have to carry a magic market to restore that "Smoke" finish from time to time. Despite the cosmetic issues, it has retained its strength. Oh, yeah; the outfits live in a box in my truck, so high temperature damage is dramatically lessened.
You discussed knot strength and integrity, so you may be surprised to hear that I always use snap swivels attached with a palomar knot. No problems. The only time I trim back the line is when the anodized black finish on the swivel has faded (or of course if the line is damaged). So far the light outfit has taken b****to 6+ lbs. and - uh - those English fish up to 12 lbs. or so.
I know the fuzzy finish is costing me some distance, but I'm still happy with the product. I concur with the mono or fluorocarbon tippet for clear water.
Tight lines and toothy grins - (Gentle reader - don't grab a gar's open snout with your kevlar safety gloves!)
Windknot
dredger
06-11-99, 10:36 AM
Hooker
Congrats on your success yesterday. I spent hours brushing rope last night to get the very fine fibers that you mentioned. I had a hunch that if the fine fibers would snag a dog brush better that they would snag a gar's teeth better, and you have already confirmed the success of it!!
I got the best results by unbraiding at least a foot of rope (don't cut it yet). Then I start brushing it with a metal bristled dog brush. The longer fibers tangle more easily. It is the tension of pulling out the tangles that gave me the nice fraying.
I was also interested in your blood experiment. I considered putting some commercial catfish bait made from ground up shad in a ziplock bag with some lures to scent and flavor them. The theory was that the gar would close his mouth and get tangled better if it got some chemical confirmation that this thing it it's mouth was food during the initial mouthing stage that several of you have observed.
How deep are you trying to get the fly?
If it would stop raining in the afternoons, I might be able to get out and test some gar flies. This talk about gars has me fired up and I've uncovered a couple places where I can address the itch, if the weather will allow me the opportunity. Maybe tommorow when I get off work- i need to wield the 8 wt. before I head to the Keys- a prelude to flailing the 13 wt for tarpon.
What strike do you use with the yarn fly? or, do you at all? Just wondering.
Dredger and David,
The gar bite the fly better if there is some bait scent on the lure. When they come after it, many will rub thier bill on the bait before biting it. I'm also assuming that they have chemical receptors on their bill, and they are trying to determine validity.
I put some weight on the fly to get it down to gar that I'm throwing to that are cruising 2-3 feet under the surface. Without the weight, the fly just takes too long to get down, and you gotta get it in front of thier face for the bite.
Because of the size of the baits, I've switched from a 4wt to an 8wt for the gar, but the 4 wt makes it a much more interesting fight. I can put the brakes on just about any gar I've caught so far with the 8wt. Makes me want to start using it for stripers and hybrid.
David, what's a strike?
Drifter
06-12-99, 02:04 PM
Great thread you guys have here! I tied some gar flies tonite. Also surfed some sites related to gar. I found one interesting tidbit of info: "The fish spawn in the spring in large groups, and their roe is poisonous to many animals, including humans.
"
Drifter
No Gar-vee-ar !!!!( fish egg mini's ! )
I am ready to go get some gar...and b@ss......so do I need to bring my coupon, or what ???? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif And as for flies.....got any for sale...if I buy one more tying thing my wife'll kill me !!!! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Please, don't call to confirm her decision... http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
Owl
By strike, I mean do you just strip until the fish is tangled, or do you rear back and "cross their eyes?" Just wondering.
I may have to stop off at the Tamiami Trail and sample some gar action on the way to the Keys. Tied me a fly that I really like, lots of glitter, nylon yarn and tandem hooks, and I have my craft fur dahlbergs already, just in case. Just need a few more small minnow patterns and I'm set.
One more thing, I was reading a back issue of warmwater last night on Florida Gar. Steve Kantner, the Land Captain, mentioned that gar will inhale a small fly into their mouths. My experience with small minnow patterns in the SF canals tends to confirm this.
Regards, DA
David,
I just use a slow steady retrieve. I've found that "crossing thier eyes" will sometimes pull the lure out of thier mouth. The lure has just not tangled good enough to hold them yet. Also, I've tried giving them slack after the bite, and that doesn't work to good either. I think the fiber needs pressure on it to tangle. Try running a comb through the fiber slow and than fast, and you'll see the difference.
I've had my best results by keeping steady pressure on the fish once they've bitten the bait. As the fight progresses the fish gets hopelessly tangled.
With the fish I'm working, the problem has become selectivity. In the afternoon, there will sometimes be over 100 laying on the surface in a small area, and when you throw the gar fly in sometimes 10 fish will turn on it, and you have to snatch it away from the smaller fish to get the larger fish.
With the trailer hooks, be sure the hook gap is smaller than the diameter of the gars jaws so it will grab some bone. Large hooks just cradle the jaws and slip off when the gar turns around.
I'll try the small fly technique next time I'm out to see what happens.
Tell us more about Tarpon fishing.
dredger
07-06-99, 11:39 AM
I caught my first gar Saturday on Lanier. It was a 38 inch longnose. It was a great fight. The fish made 3 runs and on the third one I had to hold the rod with 2 hands!! The boat traffic was a problem so I only saw one fish to cast to (which I caught http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif ).
In the words of Arnold s. "I'll be back!"
Congratulations Dredger,
You've just been inducted into the Society of Trash Fishers.
Trout are no longer a sacred.
dredger
07-06-99, 06:41 PM
Trout for the fall/winter
Bream/crappie for the spring
Gar for the summer
Fly fishing, it's not just for trout anymore!!
I sure wish one of you guys would enter the streamer swap with the fabled "Gar Fly".
On the other hand, dont enter, I want to win those Tarpon flies. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif
KB
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