Catch & release on the Hooch? [Archive]

ffaddict

03-29-99, 06:05 PM

Apparently, flyfishing (ff) popularity is on the rise in the South and particularly in Atlanta. Considering the large number of conservative minded residents, a ff only or catch & release section on the Chattahooche River tail water would serve the majority interest well. It would also promote tourism and dollars for conservation.

1. Would a catch & release movement be a realistic cause?
2. Have there been any recent formal actions taken up with the appropriate governing body regarding such regulations?
3. Would such regulations promote reproduction and larger trout?
4. If an area was regulated as catch & release far enough below Buford Dam, would the Chattahooche provide enough nurishment to support healthy trout or would the fish have to be supplemented?
5. Can the release from the dam be better managed in your opinion to preserve the trout habitat? Could the dam be reconfigured to release in a manner to reduce erosion and possibly promote growth? If so, at what cost (estimate)?
6. In a perfect world, what would be an ideal stretch to classify as catch and release (or ff) only?
7. What are your recommendations if any to begin the pursuit of a catch and release section?

Thank you very much for your time. Your professional opinion is appreciated.

SHAWN

03-29-99, 06:28 PM

Uh oh,
I see an argument in the making for the board. I have made the mistake of releasing a what ever so seems to be a harmless topic to only have it devoured in a feeding frenzy of ticked off fishermen and women. I see lots of problems. First the corn chuckers and meat throwers would show their disaproval. The spinfishermen wouldn't be to happy with it either. It is a heavily used resourse by every type. I also see some problems with the yuppy jerks that think they know how to fish overrunning it with there $3000 fishing outfits. They'll croud the section with the thought of someone actually seeing them Fly Fishing and thinking they are special. To many of those out there. How do you think the Orvis store stays in business. They recomend "Oh you need to buy the trident rod". By the way, never buy orvis line, sucks. You can see them walking up with every excessary right down to their $15 cigar. Not saying that I disaprove of them on the river. I always love to get a good laugh in when I go fishing, these guys usually provide plenty of it.

The Hooch is a put and take fishery. If you know what you are doing, you can also end up with some large fish on the end of your line. I don't think that reproduction will be to good unless some drastic measures are taken build structure nessesary for the trout to lay their eggs.

Water release, talk to the corps. Would count on them making it more reasonable. Better off going and talking to your representative and asking him or her why the hell things aren't being done to slow the OUT OF CONTROL growth we have in this state. As long as Atlanta keeps growing by 70,000 people each year, our problems are going to worsen. I live on the southside where there never used to be traffic. Try driving down I-75 now during rush hour. It's pathetic.

Well, that's about all I can say at the moment. Rushed for time. Have to go take a statistics test. I hope some of these statements answere your questions.
Shawn

HNeal

03-29-99, 11:43 PM

The Hooch won't support reproduction in enough quantity to do the job. And unfortunately the section from Buford to Morgan Falls is at great risk from the same thing that did in the lower section--thermal pollution from run-off from the overdeveloped city around it. When rain lands on hot concrete and asphalt and it runs into the river, it heats up the water to a level that will not support the trout. The silt coming from new construction is also a problem, though not as bad as the run-off.

It is most unfortunate that not only cannot the Hooch work in the way you wanted, but its likely to cease being suitable trout water unless something is done. The lower section is stocked with fingerlings, growing up semi-wild (great fishing!), at least they did before the run-off problem took over. It's still stocked with the fingerlings, it is just that very few survive to adulthood.

HNeal

03-29-99, 11:43 PM

Drifter

03-30-99, 12:33 AM

ffaddict,

C&R as it pertains to the Hooch has been hotly debated on this Board for some time. Use the search icon in the top right corner of your screen to view volumes of info that have been posted on this board.

I'm not gonna get long winded so I'll keep it quick. To improve trout fishing on the Hooch, IMNSHO we need to improve the water quality by:

- raising the DO levels in the water
- controlling runoff, by allowing stormwater runoff to percolate into the soil thus cooling the water (as opposed to heating the water with asphalt parking lots and streets.
- controlling siltation
- make for a more steady release of water from the dam to avoid drastic changes in water levels.

I f these things could be done, I believe natural reproduction would take place, and insect activity would increase. Essentially you would be increasing the bioma$$ of the stream.

Welcome to NGTO.

Usual disclaimers apply, YMMV,

The Drifter

NightOwl

03-30-99, 12:44 AM

Let me just start by saying......

.... http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif .... I ain't touchin this one again !!!!!

I agree with the Driftmiester !

The Ole Man

03-30-99, 01:04 AM

Ditto

Bill Couch

04-01-99, 09:08 PM

ffaddict,
I need to stay out of the catch and release argument. I will answer a few of the questions.

I think it is unlikely C&R will be proposed for the Hooch. Studies have just been completed and are planned that will help DNR biologist make recommendations on the management of the system. Lisa (Bohm) Klien recently found 70% of the browns were being released. We nearly have catch and release, though not sponsored by the DNR (See Lisa's quotes in Ga Outdoor News). I think WRD biologist would have to be convinced that MOST of the anglers wanted C&R before making a C&R recommendation. Delayed harvest MAY be a possibility, but don't hold your breath. We are required to base decisions that reduce fishing opportunities (DH/C&R,Artificials Only, ect.) on good information. There just don't hasn't been work on the Hooch for more than 10 years.

The list of do's and don'ts Drifter put us to help the Hooch is right on the mark, with the exception of constant releases. Modeling has shown that peaking generations are important to "PUSH" th cold water downstream and maintain the trout fishery Below Morgan Falls. Additionally, it moves silt downstream. I am concerned that a constant flow would leave a shifting sand bottom on much of the river. The high flow releases are occasionally necessary to help control temperature problems at the hatchery.

The ACT/ACT water wars will impact how water is released from Buford Dam. A number of organizations are having input into the negotiations, and the trout fishery is being considered. There are a lot of things happening and fishery managers are concerned. I am encouraged to hear so much talk recently about biological issues and how different management of the dams might affect them. One of my biggest concerns is that peaking flows (high flow generations) will be eliminated. My reasons are listed above.
Bill

HNeal

04-01-99, 10:57 PM

Bill,
I know this isn't within your scope, but following up on the need for high flow releases from Buford to keep the temperatures under control below Morgan Falls, my question concerns the effect the stop and go schedule at Morgan Falls Dam affects the temperature. Would more steady releases at Morgan Falls stablize the temps below? Thus allowing the trout there to thrive? Perhaps you could put the question to some of your cohorts and come up with an opinion.

Tommy Hunter

04-01-99, 11:01 PM

Hey guys,
Just a follow up to Bill's post. Before Buford Dam was constructed, the Chattahoochee was a warm water river with all the accompanying fish species (I know y'all know that). Any way, as an official with the Gwinnett County Department of Public Utilities, I am well aware of the negotiations concerning the water wars Bill was talking about. I have been asked to take part in finding a solution, along with a host of other people, based on Gwinnett County's needs. A question that keeps coming up is should we be concerned with keeping the 'Hooch a trout stream even though it is an artificial situation. Many don't think so. Their feelings are that the needs for more water from the 'Hooch to fuel our unbelievable growth as well as work out a deal with Alabama and Florida is more important than trout. I, of course, do not feel that way. I feel, that if for no other reason, just because we have a sustainable trout population this far south is a reason to maintain it at all costs. It's a claim no other major metro area has. Even if it means constructing reservoirs in other basins. Currently those that feel as I do are winning, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way. I suggest that each person keep an eye on the water wars and make your voices heard if any of this comes out. We must keep the fishery first, then worry about how to manage it. I don't know if I should have said any of this--oh well, I make enough money on the side.

Tommy

NightOwl

04-01-99, 11:42 PM

Easy there, Mr. Tommy ! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif I almost got run outa the state for " supposin " that we had something other than trout to fish for...

I know that's not what you were saying....and if we're winning - Good for US !!!I agree that the growth of the metro and surrounding areas is ....wow...but there should be a way to adjust without sacrificing the trout fishery we have worked so hard on , for so many years.- ( thank you Bill and crew) http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

Tommy Hunter

04-02-99, 12:46 AM

N.O.
That's exactly the position those that I side with have taken. Find alternatives.

Tommy

ffaddict

04-02-99, 10:58 AM

Bill,

Thanks for the detailed answer in reponse to my inquiry. Your insight into the idea of C&R inspires me because I sense that there remains a remote possibility of such a regulation on the tailwaters of the Hooch. You specifically point out that "Studies have just been completed and are planned that will help DNR biologist make recommendations on the management of the system." You also made a clear point that "WRD biologist would have to be convinced that MOST of the anglers wanted C&R before making a C&R recommendation." You also made an excellent point that "We (DNR) are required to base that decisions to reduce fishing opportunities (delayed harvest, C&R, artificials only, ect...) on good information. And I concluded from your last comment in this first paragraph that the Hooch needs some expert biological investigating because there has not been work done on the Hooch for more than 10 years.

If regulations are based on "good information," then we, all resident anglers, need to formalize a method to gather "good information." An cost efficient means of gathering public opinion would be survey. If we, all resdent anglers, sponsored a survey to determine the majority opinion on the subject in an approved format according to the DNR and WRD, then it is possible to get a biological study on the proposed catch and release or delayed harvest regulation.

To all viewers:

Would each of you be willing to contribute time and effort to such a survey in whatever format deemed acceptable by the DNR and WRD for the proposed regulation in a section of the Hooch?

We can experience better quality of fishing if we try.

Johnny

04-02-99, 12:10 PM

Bill Couch wrote:

"Delayed harvest MAY be a possibility, but don't hold your breath. We are required to base decisions that reduce fishing opportunities (DH/C&R,Artificials Only, ect.) on good information."

Hi Bill,

I always look forward to reading your messages cause they’re interesting and full of good information. That said, I hope you’ll comment further about how “DH/C&R,Artificials Only “ actually reduce fishing opportunities. Both fly fish and spinning people can release fish and use artificial lures and, since the fish are in the stream longer, it seems to me that those management methods actually promote fishing opportunities, or at least the opportunities to catch fish.

I’ve been hearing for 25 years that a particular faction within the DNR looks to the stocking program as nothing more than a protein source for some of the good folks up in the Cleveland area. Your comment leads me to believe that those people are still in charge of the decisions making process. The opening of Smith Creek to delayed harvest had me hoping that the DNR had learned a few lessons from our enlightened neighbors to the north (North Carolina) but now I’m afraid that was only wishful thinking.

Later,
Johnny

Bill Couch

04-06-99, 06:59 PM

ffaddict,
Georgia has a Trout Management Team composed of seven DNR reps. There are five fisheries management, one game management and one law enforcement persons. They (I'm one of the fish folks) are seeking new ways to improve trout fishing and the management of trout in the state.

One of the teams recommendations was the DH regulations for Smith Creek. Other streams are also being considered. Additionally, a survey of trout anglers has been designed, and approved. A separate group will be contracted to conduct a telphone survey. As angler preferences change, we plan to change our management. Hopefully, the survey will help.

floater

04-07-99, 10:34 PM

Sounds good! In what means will the survey be taken, where will it be available? It seems you could conduct it in some of the same way as the good folks at unicoi lodge did for smiths creek delayed harvest survey. Just a thought.

NightOwl

04-08-99, 01:34 PM

What you must understand Johnny, is that when you limit the tackle, harvest, etc. of a stream , the 80% of trout fishermen and women who are fishing for eating purposes are "eliminated" from using that resource ( in their own minds ). We must remember tht not all anglers are C&R ( right T ? ) and not all of our anglers are " keep just a few " folks . See outside the likes of NGTO folks and you can see the big picture. The state of GA does not stock for you and I ( directly) , but for those who want to catch and EAT trout.
I must again remind everyone though, .... If the stocking ever ends , you can kiss your wild fish good-bye. They will be gobbled up in months by meat - seekers looking for dinner. May the trucks always roll !!!

floater

04-08-99, 03:34 PM

Night Owl,
It's fine for trucks to roll, but shouldn't we consider decreasing(limit) the the amount of fish that can be taken by those folks on streams such as the likes of those in Cohutta wma, Coleman wma, swallow wma, blue ridge wma...I think It's a fine thought...

,floater

Flyguy

04-08-99, 05:15 PM

I agree that we should look at the harvest limit on some of the streams here in GA, but do you really think that by lowering the creel limit by a couple of fish would help? We have creel limits on streams and river's now and there are people that still harvest way over there legal limit on a weekly basis. Who is going to make sure that these new guide lines are going to be kept on all these streams and rivers. Place like the Jacks. Cohuttas, Chatooga and others are hard to keep an eye on for the local DNR...alot of ground to cover.

I think for the most part that the people that hike into the Jack's, Cahutta's, and smaller wild trout streams are not there to fish for meat, but to take the challenge of trying to catch a few wild trout and maybe keep a few for dinner. Those who are after the meet can find alot of other place that are easier to get to and will curb there taste for trout...such as the Hooch were most fish would die any way if they were not harvested.

Just a thought....

Flyguy

floater

04-08-99, 06:56 PM

You just $#!+ on me(hahahehe). Just look at how many people troutfish(Instead of an 8 fish limit, a 4 fish limit=4 less fish taken out of a stream that is fished by 8 people that take their limit = 32 more fish in that stream), and that was only 8 people, just think.... Wouldn't a limit or limits at least make troutfishers and their conscience aware of it. I think that most troutfishers are at least halfway decent enough to maintain the per person limit. I think that most of them listen to the law, or at least know the law, and I think that most them have a conscience, and I just don't think their are that many people that take way over their limit anyway, and you know how if the speed limit is 60mph then some people go 70mph or so(just a little over), but then if they made it 30mph then those people would go about 40mph. I think it would be the same with trout fishing. wwwwwhhhheeeeeewwwwwwwww!!!!!!

$0.02.......floater

Bill Couch

04-09-99, 08:21 PM

Floater,

I'm swamped and won't be able to answer every inquiry, will forget to answer others, and have to be PC, so will not answer some. I will do what I can. Please be patient with me, and understand I moderate this topic in addition to my job and family responsibilities. Sometimes I need to thoroughly check out an inquiry. Often this takes time. However, if your topic isn't answered you may wish to visit the hatchery or call. I can sometimes be more candid in person or on the phone. My number is 770 781 6888. I'm hard to get in touch with, but do return phone calls.

The Angler Surveys will be telephone surveys. Hopefully a random sampling of "trout anglers" (people who purchased trout stamps). To provide your personal input you should plan to attend public meetings. There will probably be one in the next few weeks at Gainesville, Ga. I'll post the a news release when it is public.

Thanks,
Bill C

HNeal

04-09-99, 11:57 PM

Good post Bill,
This C&R vs C&K debate is getting tiresome, it's like discussing religion, politics, or OJ http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif Getting these folks to participate in the established decision-making process is the only hope for peace. It is not a perfect solution because of the political influences involved, but the more we join in, the more we learn to work the system.

So, IMNSHO, lets please just shut up on this debate and get to work!!!!