What about nutrient levels in tailwaters?

[John Pool]

Thanks to Bill and Lee for providing the information in their earlier post on nutrient levels in mtn. streams -- a factor that apparently limits the fish carrying capacity and growth potential. But I have a two part question about tailwaters.

PART I -- I know low levels of dissolved oxygen have limited the potential in some tailwaters, but this situation is being remied by such measures as installing generators with oxygen supplementing appratus, weirs that aeroate the water, etc. I would think the water being discharged from a reservoir has had the chance to become more enriched with nutrients during its stay in the lake -- strickly a layman's buess with no scientific backing. But I've seen the occasional blizzard hatch and more bug life in general almost on a daily basis in tailwaters than Mtn. streams. Do tailwaters have more carrying capacity than freestone streams or are there just more fish because they're bigger?

PART II - I realize that without supplemental feeding that's labor intensive, the mtn. streams have limited potential from benefitting from special regulations. But if the tailwaters are more compatable with trout growth and numbers, might there not be some potential for special regulations to increase the number of trophy fish if they're allowed to remain in the steam and grow out? I know most of Ga.'s license/trout stamp buyers are looking for a fish supper, and that's well and good. But aren't there enough "sport" angelers to warrant at least some sections of special regulation water on some of the tailwaters? As for Ga.'s tailwaters, I'm only familiar with the Hooch (which I've never fished) and the Toccoa (which I fish regularly). There's the Nottley too but I don't know anything about it.
Just wondering -- (And hoping for a chance to have my line stretched a little more often).

Thanks -- JPOOL

[James Buice]

Mr Pool,
I don't work for the DNR, but have some info that may help.
Chirs Scalley on the Chattahoochee (working with biologists from Ga DNR) is doning an insect survey for the river. They are going to stock less trout in the Hooch next year (rumored) so the growth rate will be much better. When the Friends of Issak Walton League stocked fish years ago in the river, the growth rate was something like one inch per month, very impressive. The food base is there, there are just so many trout.

As for the Toccoa, I've noticed a great increase in the size of fish you find in the river as opposed to the Hooch (you just have to know where to look). The insect base is there, the stockings are less, and I believe the fish grow out faster. The river has excellent potential, but lacks proper managment (nothing against Bill Couch, it's not his area).

James

[The Professor]

I have little information concerning the dissolved oxygen level of the section below Morgan Falls, but it does have a fantastic insect population. Before the temperature, etc. situation started to affect the trout population, the trout there grew quite well. The stocked it as fingerlings and allowed them to grow up as wild as possible. With the great insect food base the trout did quite well. The record brown, if memory serves, was taken out of that section. Short of tearing up all the asphalt in north Atlanta, the lower section of the Hooch is but a memory. It does go to show matching the numbers of fish to the available food can do.

[Tommy Hunter]

Prof,
I believe the record brown came from Rock Creek, but one just one ounce short was taken down there somewhere.

Tommy

[The Professor]

Tommy,
That may very well be correct. I confess to have not looked into this in many years, and my memory is apt to be a little suspect. But as you said, if it wasn't a record, it was a "dern big fish". Records are so artifical anyhow--just ask Gary Merritt at Fishhawk re: that Black Marlin on the wall of the shop.

[Lisa Klein]

James,

I was just reading your message concerning the management of the Hooch. I just want to let everybody know that I am the person in charge of management of the trout fishery and I am working on a VERY large research project that began in July 98 with the first phase, with the second phase starting in Feb 2000. This will include a 15-17 month creel survey, tagging of 60,000 trout (rainbows and browns) and water quality monitoring. The last creel survey was approximately 15 years ago on this section, and is long overdue, but since I've only worked with GaDNR for a year and a half, I'm working as fast as I can! Feel free to call me at 770-918-6418 if you want to know more about whats being planned for the river and its trout fishery.

Lisa

[Tommy Hunter]

Lisa,
Please let us know how we can help. I'm sure all of us here who fish the 'hooch will be glad to do our part.

Thanks,
Tommy

[The Ole Man]

Tommy/Prof
State record brown was from Rock Creek-but it was a fluke. The fish was a hand fed pet of a daughter of a hatchery employee. The fish escaped and went down Rock creek and was caught and turned in for the record. Record has stood since-since the 70's. I don't recognize that as a record myself. But it's fact. A number of fish from the Hooch have been just a few ounces short of the Rock Creek fish. Think the Rock Creek record was a little over 16 pounds.

[Tommy Hunter]

Hey guys,
Just for information, according to Jimmy Jacobs, the state record brown that was caught in Rock Creek weighed 18 pounds 2 ounces. I wouldn't mind catching one like that even if it was an escaped brooder. Would y'all?

Tommy

[floater]

Nope http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

Heck, I don't mind catching any size trout http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

As long as they can fit on the hook, I don't mind it http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[Drifter]

Lisa,

Thanks for coming to the Flings. Your presentations are always very informative.

Welcome to NGTO.

Drifter

[William McClendon]

Yes Lisa, thanks a lot. Your presentation was very informative. Nice to know we have you out there working the river. Please keep us updated often.

[Danny Leigh]

Stan Crigger (Sp?) caught a huge brown that weighed right at 18 pounds that was caught on the hooch near Six Flags in February I think about 6-7 years ago. He caught it at night on a crankbait. I can only imagine what it was like to pull in a fish that big, at night, in the middle of winter.

[Hooker]

"at night in the middle of winter"

The limited time that we spend on the water fishing is nothing but an irritation to the secret life of fish.

[floater]

Awesome

[Lisa Klein]

Anybody want to help?

I spread the word at the Spring Fling about needing people to call me (or Bill) if they are out fishing on the Hooch and see browns staging or redds. Bill and I are trying to document areas in the river where the browns are spawning. The more eyes we have on the river, the better off we (Bill and I) will be. Thanks to all who want to help!

Lisa

[Lisa Klein]

John,

Here's a belated answer to your two part question concerning tailwaters.

Part I

You were interested in the low levels of dissolved oxygen (DO) routinenly found in tailwaters after they stratify (stratification is temperature related, basically the cooler denser water is on the bottom [why we have the trout fishery in the Hooch]and the warmer lighter water is on the top). This is a big problem in many tailwaters across the US. However, this isn't the only problem.
True, lots of "stuff" flows into reservoirs (ie. lawn fertilizer, animal manure, wastewater discharge...) but most of this flows onto the top layer (during the summer when the reservoir is stratified), as these nutrients filter down through the water column to the cooler, denser water layer, bacteria break these nutrients down. I'm sure a lot of you fishing on the Hooch in the fall and early winter months have noticed the red, fluffy material coating just about everything just down from the dam. This is iron, there is also manganese and hydrogen sulfide. These are some of the elements/compounds that are left after the different types of bacteria break down the "stuff" that sinks towards the bottom of the reservoir. Oxygen tends to affect how these elements/compounds affect the fish/bugs in the tailwater. For instance, oxygen makes the iron in the water flock out, or form the red coating that covers everything in the fall/winter. The high metals concentrations in the water(ie. manganese) also stress the trout. If you ever fish during this time and catch a fish and have its gills bleed for an unexplained reason, now you know the reason! But getting back to your question on bug life, you are right in that a lot of it has to do with surface area, tailwaters cover more area than mountain streams do, it also has to do with the natural productivity of the land (on whether or not the land has limestone as a base). Just like liming your lawn will make your fertilizer work better, limestone increases the natural productivity of a tailwater (the White R. in Arkansas for example) and in some less ahhaammm....nutrient filled reservoirs, where metals aren't a problem, nutrients washing in from the watershed (ie. agricultural areas) also give a boost to the bug life. But in a general sense, tailwaters do have a higher carrying capacity simply because they are bigger. (you are all probably wishing I would have just said that in the beginning aren't you?)

Part II

You are correct in assuming that tailwaters (being bigger and holding more fish) can offer a variety of fishing experiences for just about any angler. A lot of what it comes down to is "How enforceable are the regulations?" If its a small stream, and there are only so many access points, then its relatively easy to enforce special regulations, but on a large tailwater, with many access points, its hard to enforce special regulations, has anybody talked with Mike Barr lately? I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you how much time it takes to patrol the entire 48 miles of trout stream below Buford Dam.
It also comes down to what the river can support (carrying capacity, growth rates etc..) The Hooch doesn't have excellent grown rates, even in 1980, research only showed trout growning an average of .2 inches a month. Its not that much better today. But wait! There is some good news, we can tweek stocking rates and to an extent, locations (probably not regulations on the Hooch quite yet) to develop different fisheries for different folks. Look for our up-incoming creel survey (starts Feb 2000) to put your two cents worth in. We really want to know how to manage the river better, so let DNR know what you want! Hope I've helped and nobody fell asleep while reading this.

Lisa

[John Pool]

Lisa -- thanks a bunch for taking time to share this information. Obviously, our streams are a lot more complex than what many of us lay-person-types may realize, even if we're in them every chance we get. Don't worry about putting anybody to sleep -- we're all ears when it comes to our trout waters. Hope you'll p****on info like this often -- I've been fishing for more years than I want to admit to, but there still so much to learn. Thanks - JPOOL