Who overlines their rod?

[Scott Swartz]

I curious who overlines their rods with a line weight higher than the manufacturer recommends? This can help load the rod better on short casts (like a lot of Georgia's trout waters)so I'm wondering how common it is.

Happy New Year,
Scott

[alan593]

I keep my rod at the manufacturers recommendation.I have heard that overlining makes it easier to cast, but I have never tried it.
Tight lines/Happy New Year
alan593

[GonetoSeed]

Scott - in my case it depends on the rod. I think over the last few years, the manufacturers (some)have moved away from the AFTMA 30' standard. The blank designers seem to be rating the finished rod for a distance that they think will be most often fished by the average customer. I think they moved in this direction because as the sport has grown, a lot of newcomers are not aware of the 30' standard and the old 'rule-of-thumb' of up-line for distances < 30-45' or down-line for cast > 50+. Too often newcomers think the rod will cast well at any distance when spooled with the rated line. Then they are disappointed when the rod does not perform well at the distances they are most often fishing (like close in on Ga waters). I think the problem got worse as more rods have been purchased online without the benefit of the help of a knowledgeable shop.

So in the case of shorter, lighter weights, the rating on the rod can perform pretty good, because the designer believes the rod will be most often fished at shorter distances. That is the designer may have already 'overlined' the rod.

In the case of faster action mid to heavier weight rods, the designer may 'downline' the rating for the rod for longer distance casting thinking they will be most often fished on bigger water ("out West"). imo, this may cause some of the casting issues here in the SE. Some rods sold as 5 wts are really 6 (or 7) wts and some 6 wts are really 7 (or 8) wts when being casted at the distances most often fished on our tailwaters or medium sized rivers (Firewalker excluded).

I think all of this is why the best advise is to go a local shop, cast the rod at the distances it is intended to be fished the most and try with 3 different lines - 1 down, the rated and 1 up.

BTW, I think because the designers have moved away from the 30' std so have line manufactures. Since more and more of the designers have rated the rods to get more distance because distance reviews well and therefore sells, the line manufactures are 'up-weighting' their lines, e.g., a 5 wt is really a 5.5 weight (for first 30'). They realize most of us are typically fishing at distances < 50' (excluding Firewalker again). So they get a marketing advantage by selling line the "loads the rod quicker" - at a higher price. The simple answer could be the angler could just overline 1 weight with their favorite old line brand series.

But hey, you have to love marketing. What would we do without new, improved gear to buy http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[Kent]

Scott -

I sometimes overline my rods for a customer's use (for casting lessons & a student who can't get the feel, sometimes up to 3 line sizes).

Personally, I almost never do. Except sorta, in one instance. I like a very short sink tip line for fishing heavy current seams & rips on the river - I buy ultra-fast sink tip lines in one wt heavier than the rod, then chop the tip (typically 15-20") down to about 8'. So this isn't really overlining.

The other exception would be shooting heads, where I commonly overline 2 line sizes. But this isn't really overlining either.

I would prefer to see an angler perfect his casting. It's the stroke (and the stop) that loads the rod (a good caster can even load short casts with a line size or 2 lower than the rod's rating). This makes it much simpler, as then the same line can be used for all situations.


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Kent
Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond (http://www.flyfishga.com)

[Scott Swartz]

Kent,

When you make your shooting heads how long is the Lc-13 to load a 9 wt and a 10 wt.? I have a 28 ft. head on my 8 wt with 100' of .027" Courland running line attached with 35lb and 50lb braided loop connections. After casting yours in Gulf Shores I had to make that system. Now I want to make one for my 9wt and for my 10wt. for a trip I'm taking this month. So how long do you recommend making the heads?

Scott

[Hopper]

I use a 7wt full sinking line on my 6wt rod for fishing streamers in lakes and on big rivers like the Yellowstone. It casts like a rocket that way....

[Josh Barnett]

I overline my Pacific Bay, 3 weight rod with a SA Trout 4wt line. I find that it makes it much easier to cast. That is the only rod, of my 12, that I overline.

Although, I have thought about putting a 6wt line, on my 5wt rod.

Joshua Barnett

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Joshua Barnett
caddisfly08@yahoo.com
1-706-354-8500

Call me for all your flies!

[Kent]

Scott-

Doncha' love those heads - makes you feel like some sort of casting god! A 100'-plus with a single backcast, then the shooting line bangs the reel with enough pop to almost yank the rod from your hands.

Generally, we upline to 2 line weights for a 40-45' head, and 2 weights for a 30-35' head. That's with traditional heads or home-made heads cut from conventional fly lines.

With Courtland's LC-13 it works like this. AFTMA for a 9 is 240 grains, and optimum load is at about 360 gr(contrary to popular opinion, rods are not designed to load fully with the AFTMA rated weight). That means about 28', so you might try the one you're using for the 8 wt.

For the 10, AFTMA is 280, with optimum load around 420. That works out to about 32' of LC13. Rio (I think) has a new tungsten-core line out called T-18. It weighs 18 grains per foot & is said to work well with heavier rods. I haven't used it yet, but hear good things.

I'd suggest cutting about a 32-33' & trying it. Then cut it back a bit til it feels good. Most experts say a 30' head is optimum length for casting, shooting & turnover. For lighter rods, 27' is about the minimum length that will work in a head. Anything shorter tends to "dump" - collapse before turning over.

Something else you might want to try is using some Amnesia for a running line if you want max distance or depth. It is a little gnarely to work with, but it sure does shoot & sink (about 15-20% faster than running line, I'd guess). I soak it in the sink the nite before a trip, then wind back on reel, cover with a small scrap of wet towel, then spool the head on top of that - keeps it wet til I start fishing. Stretch it good before using, and keep it wet while fishing (a couple of inches of water in the bottom of your shooting bucket).

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Kent
Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond (http://www.flyfishga.com)

[croaker]

Scott,

I agree with Kents advice on trying the Amnesia for running line. I've used it for years. I like the 20# on the 6wt. and 25# or 30# on the 8 & 9wts.

He's also right on about the LC-13. Start with more than you think you'll need. Then cut it back til it feels right. 31' feels good on my old 9wt, 29' fer the 8wt. Been usin a 30' store bought (Orvis) super fast sinking head on the 6wt it's not as heavy as the LC-13. Gonna get around to making a LC-13 for the 6wt soon.

Ain't Shooting Heads Grand!!!

croaker

[DAWGFISH]

Scott,

I always try one line weight heavier and one lighter whenever I get a new rod, as well as different tapers and types of lines. The number of rods that cast better with one weight heavier line weights amazes me. This is the case on a lot of more moderate action, fuller flexing rods also. I've also seen cases where a rod cast better going with one line weight lighter line. I guess the moral of the story is to try a bunch of lines on a rod and just see what works the best for that rod. Steve

[This message has been edited by DAWGFISH (edited 01-05-2004).]