Zig Zag Zell

[Grady]

As Zell is giving Kerry hell tonight, think about this. Zell is the embodiment of what Republicans profess to hate so much. Flip flop.

http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003199.html

[streamKAT]

As he said last nite, 9/11 changes things.

He would still support all of those democratic positions and he still thinks Kerry is a war hero. He merely questions Kerry/Edwards judgement in time of war as do I.

'A more sensitive war on terror' LOL!!

Almost any Marine would recognize the naivity and folly of that proposition.

Kerry is 'out there' perhaps due to shell shock and he will inadvertently get my sons killed on the battlefield with his 'sensitive' approach.

Cheney said it best last nite:

'As if Al Quaeda will be impressed with our softer side...'

[edwin]

Zell Miller is THE ultimate flip-flopper. Just to give a couple of examples:

Previously, he was pro-choice, now he is anti-abortion, and compares pro-choice women to slave owners.

Previously, he supported John Kerry and called him a national hero. Last night, he called him unpatriotic, and supported George Bush.

He'll do whatever is politically expedient. Exactly what they accuse Kerry of doing.

[fishmonger]

Zell was awesome!

I notice that nobody here has rebutted what he said in his speech last night. Zell is not running for office, so his personal positions are not really relevant to his discussion of the Beloved Liberal.

Make that BLT: Beloved Liberal on Toast!

Hah!! http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

Let the panic begin...

FM

[THE EG]

he he he. Isn't he a Democrat?

[rickster]

Edwin, how in the world could it be "politically expedient" for Zell?

rickster

[bpal]

LMAO.. after watching that nut job last night, I am CONVINCED he was a dem plant!!! Unless the Republican party wants to be seen securely and undoubtedly as TOTALLY WHACKED OUT!

~B

[hawgleg]

Some Zell quotes from his keynote speech:

"Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending."

"U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?"

"From John Kerry, they get a "yes-no-maybe" bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends."

"John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security."

[JOHNKIES]

Yep, HawgLeg got all four quotes exactly right.

And all four are lies. As for Zell being politically expedient, do remember that when his appointed term in the Senate is complete, he will be looking for work.

[JOHNKIES]

But I will say this about old Zell, while I disagree with what he said, it was great fun to see an old fashioned, intensely partisan, political speech! And quite southern, I might add. When this campaign is over, I bet that speech will be on the high-light reels for years to come. Sort of like Larry Munson making a political speech.

[Grady]

Zig Zag and **** "Other Priorities" Cheney tossed out some red meat last night, didn't they? Wow. And folks thought Howard Dean was angry.

[Dragonfly Man]

Bottom line IMHO: Zig Zag has a book to sell.
JPool

[Frequent Flyer]

I thought it was a great speech - passionate and accurate. I particulary liked his summary of Kerry's "accomplishments" as a senator.

Loren

[The Ole Man]

Pretty zany of Zell to do that for the Repubs--especially after he was so miffed 3 years ago when Rumsfeld referred to him as a "hillbilly".

[Grady]

Maybe Zell is a Democratic mole, Ole Man. Lots of people are saying that rant last night will not help the Republicans. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif


On to the substance of the speech. A few of Zell's distortions and lies are exposed here:

"If the convention speeches are any guide, Republicans have run out of excuses for blowing the economy, blowing the surplus, and blowing our military resources and moral capital in the wrong country. So they're going after the patriotism of their opponents. Here's what the convention keynoter, Miller, said tonight about Democrats and those who criticize the way President Bush has launched and conducted the Iraq war:

'While young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrats' manic obsession to bring down our commander in chief.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

In [Democratic leaders'] warped way of thinking, America is the problem, not the solution. They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.'

Every one of these charges is demonstrably false. When Bush addressed Congress after 9/11, Democrats embraced and applauded him. In the Afghan war, they gave him everything he asked for. Most Democratic senators, including John Kerry and John Edwards, voted to give him the authority to use force in Iraq. During and after the war, they praised Iraq's liberation. Kerry has never said that any other country should decide when the United States is entitled to defend itself."

http://www.slate.com/id/2106109/#ContinueArticle

[This message has been edited by Grady (edited 09-02-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Grady (edited 09-02-2004).]

[Grady]

Who'd a thunk it? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif Less than 24 hours after Zig Zag hit his knees for the Republicans, the Bushies leave him twisting in the wind. The Republicans are running from their KEYNOTE SPEAKER. You think they didn't know what he was going to say? LOL. LOL. Laughing out loud!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897622

[This message has been edited by Grady (edited 09-02-2004).]

[fishmonger]

Grady's party of choice has nominated a sorry cantidate, so he is kind of touchy. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

FM

[edwin]

rickster, I didn't say his comments were "politically expedient." You won't find that in my post. If you really want to hear a little more about Zell, why don't you read what he had to say about John Kerry just three years ago. Here you go:

Introduction of Senator John Kerry by Senator Zell Miller:
>
> Democratic Party of Georgia's Jefferson-Jackson Dinner
>
> Thursday 01 March 2001
>
> It is good to be back in Georgia and to be with you. I have been
> coming to these dinners since the 1950s, and have missed very few.
>
> I'm proud to be Georgia's junior senator and I'm honored to serve
> with Max Cleland, who is as loved and respected as anyone in that =
body.
> One of our very highest priorities must be to make sure this man is
> re-elected in 2002 so he can continue to serve this state and nation.
>
> I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes and
> Lieutenant Governor Taylor and the Speaker and the General Assembly =
are
> getting done over at the Gold Dome. Georgia is fortunate to have this
> kind of leadership.
>
> My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this
> nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest
> leaders - and a good friend.
>
> He was once a lieutenant governor - but he didn't stay in that
> office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years =
before
> the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in
> 1984.
>
> In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against
> government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to
> Washington.
>
> Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the
> Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for =
balanced
> budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to =
do
> so.
>
> John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public =
education,
> boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine
> named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a
> member of its "Digital Dozen."
>
> John was re-elected in 1990 and again in 1996 - when he defeated
> popular Republican Governor William Weld in the most closely watched
> Senate race in the country.
>
> John is a graduate of Yale University and was a gunboat officer in
> the Navy. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three awards of =
the
> Purple Heart for combat duty in Vietnam. He later co-founded the =
Vietnam
> Veterans of America.
>
> He is married to Teresa Heinz and they have two daughters.
>
> As many of you know, I have great affection - some might say an
> obsession - for my two Labrador retrievers, Gus and Woodrow. It turns
> out John is a fellow dog lover, too, and he better be. His German
> Shepherd, Kim, is about to have puppies. And I just want him to know =
...
> Gus and Woodrow had nothing to do with that.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Senator John Kerry.


If you say, Zig Zag Zell has the right to change his mind, so be it, but don't lambast Kerry for so called "flip flops" at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

[soddy]

Grady --- Regarding the statement "You think they didn't know what he was going to say?" in reference to Zell...would you say the same thing is true about Rev Al Sharpton and the Dem convention? Apparently Al ran a lot longer and said a lot that was not expected by the Dems...and the word was that the Dems didn't appreciate it. So what's the difference?

soddy

[lone wolf]

I listened to both Sharpton and Zell. Yes, AL was his usual self, with his "one-liners" and all, but Sharpton's comments are made almost as humor, and he doesn't "cut anybody slack" (dems or pubs). Now Zell.... he looked like he was transformed into a raging demon!! (Did anybody else notice how scary his eyes looked) Especially when he challenged Chris Mathews to a fight or duel or whatever. (Wouldn't that be interesting, one of those Hamilton vs. Burr pistol duels, with Zell slapping Mathews with a glove and demanding satisfaction and all) I've never seen such anger and hatred. Which is not good for either party.
Also, after the nomination, Sharpton was on the stage with Kerry, front and center. I didn't see much of Zell after the nomination. (He may have been there, I just didn't notice him through all the ballons and such) I also noticed the Bush's have been pretty much abandoned Zell. I used to really like Zell, but I am beginning to wonder about his mental capacity.

[Grady]

I think Lone Wolf has it right, from my memory. There was some talk about Sharpton talking too long, but I don't remember the Deomcrats disavowing his speech. Too, Miller was the keynote speaker for the Republicans. They chose to shine the spotlight on him, and then just cut him off at the knees afterward. I think both got what they deserve.

As a side note, I don't much care for Sharpton's style. Sadly, though, it seems that humor and mockery are becoming standard fare. I think we all lose.

[soddy]

There was more to it than Sharpton talking too long. He brought up issues that the Dems did not want mentioned (issues divisive among Dems). I'm sorry I do not recall what the specific issues were at this time, but I'm certain of the incident.

soddy

[JasonN]

Zell is unquestionably clinically insane.

------------------
Jason Neuswanger, Trout Nut, http://www.troutnut.com
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[slightly grayling]

Yea, how dare him start blurting out the truth like a prophet with Tourette's syndrome....Zell is far from crazy...cantankerous, definately, but not crazy.

[Speck]

I particularly liked the interview on Hardball afterward, when he challenged Chris Matthews to a duel.

And for those who say Zell did this for political expedience or to sell books:

1. I hear he's planning on retiring after the term, not seeking anything within the Bush admin. So there goes the political expedience part.

2. He wrote the book well before the convention, so did he write the book so he could get on the convention floor to promote it?

Which is it, guys? Clinically insane, or crazy like a fox?



------------------
Speck
Follower of Christ
Pursuer of trout

[Grady]

Maybe he's clinically insane like a fox. http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/smile.gif

[jeffg]

Or as my friends up North say
" Man are all you Georgians that crazy??" and they are yankee republicans asking me that question..

[JOHNKIES]

Let's see. The RNC keynote speaker challenges a member of the media to a dual (hey what happened to all the conservatives who loved Matthews when he was constantly questioning the Clinton administration?) on national television and the Vice President stoops to the use of profanity on the floor of the Congress. Yep, that's one classy bunch.

[slightly grayling]

The problem is no one wants to or has the time to sort out the facts and misinformation that is perpetuated via people's blind emotion and from the puppet masters behind the elections…ie. “The RNC keynote speaker challenges a member of the media to a dual” the actual statement was “I wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel”. That is as big a difference as saying “I wish I lived in a day that I could fish with no creel limits without a license” and then accusing him of claiming he catches and keeps as many fish as he can without a license. It is absurd and anyone who defends or criticizes the class of either Party is being intellectually dishonest and is throwing stones in a glass house. For instance “Christ would not vote for Kerry” Alan Keys…sleazy or Al Gore comparing Bush to Islamic Fundamentalist……sleazy….not to mention Clinton’s behavior in the Oral Office….I can appreciate Zell’s frustration with his party and his anger…..media and politicians are not held accountable for their words or actions. There was a day not so long ago that slandering someone or calling them a liar was an invitation for them to whip your ar$e or at least give it a good try….so maybe dualing isn’t such a bad idea…but I’m sure dualing pistols would quickly be added to a new banned weapons list.