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mmarkey
10-19-04, 02:57 PM
(I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!)

This was written in the Daily Record (Ellensburg, Washington paper)
onWed. Oct. 6, 2004. It was written by Mathew Manweller who is a
Central Washington University political science professor.
The title of the article was "Election determines fate of nation."

"In that this will be my last column before the presidential election
there will be no sarcasm, no attempts at witty repartee. The topic is too
serious, and the stakes are too high. This November we will vote in the
only election during our lifetime that will truly matter. Because America
is at a once-in-a-generation crossroads, more than an election in the balance.
Down one path lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down
the other lies a nation that is aware of its past and accepts the
daunting obligation its future demands. If we choose poorly, the
consequences will echo through the next 50 years of history. If we,
in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current occupant of the White House,
the message to the world and ourselves will be twofold.

First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things.
Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and
stood upon the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing
democracy to Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more
significantly, we will signal to future presidents that as voters, we are
unwilling to tackle difficult challenges, preferring caution to
boldness, embracing the mediocrity that has characterized other
civilizations. The defeat of President Bush will send a chilling message to
culture presidents who may need to make difficult, yet unpopular
decisions. America has always been a nation that rises to the demands
of history regardless of the costs or appeal. If we turn away from that
legacy, we turn away from who we are.

Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that the
lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed terrorists that
you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when you can defeat
them in the newsroom.

They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America.
Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy
lifting, turning a cut into a fatal blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia times 10.

The election of John Kerry will serve notice to every terrorist in
every cave that the soft underbelly of American power is the timidity of
American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady stream of grizzly photos for
CNN is all you need to break the will of the American people. Our own
self-doubt will take it from there. Bin Laden will recognize that he can
topple any American administration without setting foot on the homeland

It is said that America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest generation.'
But my greatest fear is that it will become known as America's
'last generation.' Born in the bleakness of the Great Depression and
hardened in the fire of WWII, they may be the last American
generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and
sacrifice. It is difficult to admit, but I know these terms are spoken
with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my generation.

Too many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being an
American.' But America has always been more of an idea than a place. When
you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values
and responsibilities. This November, my generation, which has been absent too
long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the oblivion they may deserve. I believe that 100 years from now
historians will look back at the election of 2004 and see it as the
decisive election of our century. Depending on the outcome, they will describe it as the moment America joined the ranks of ordinary nations;
or they will describe it as the moment the prodigal sons and daughters
of the greatest generation accepted their burden as caretakers of the
City on the Hill."

------------------
Mike Markey

Bob M
10-19-04, 03:10 PM
There is 'only one true way to think' and you must sign on to it or you aren't an 'American'? Hogwash.

Regarding accepting responsibility, I'm looking at these federal deficits, the trade deficit and seeing a bunch of irresponsible folks loading up debt on the backs of their children.

There is an old Chinese saying that goes something like: Peasant, Ancestor, Rich Man, Peasant. It describes how an 'Ancestor' rises up from being peasant through hard work and accumulates great wealth, which is then passed on to his 'Rich Man' children that squander it and thier children are left with a life of a peasant.

There are a lot of 'Rich Men' out there.

All the chest beating and high-minded words aren't even amusing irony.

JOHNKIES
10-19-04, 05:46 PM
And I thought old Dubya would wrap himself in the flag and here this guy does it for him.

The last desperate stand of a failed presidency is the concept that without (name your president here) the whole thing will fall apart. The Brits are a good lesson here in that while they tossed Churchill near the end of WWII, the country stood and won. The US and it's will is far larger than one 1600 Penn. Ave resident; always has been, always will.

Of course we need a strong country, but fighting in Iraq does not make us stronger or safer. Providing the funding to local agencies to inspect air & sea cargo, staffing additional police, fire and emergency services, those things will make us safer. You have to sit back and think the issues through for yourself and not get caught up in the rhetoric. Ask yourself where are the holes in our defenses that allow terrorists to operate and are those holes being addressed?

Sometimes insight comes from unusual sources. I was reading the recent issue of Road & Track and the engineering editor had an interesting article on petroleum and its viability as a long term fuel source. According to the sources he quoted, the known petroleum reserves and deposits are good for between 40 and 100 more years. What we don't have is refinery capacity. The last new refinery built in the US was in 1976, and since then, many older ones have closed. The result is that US oil refining is now operating at close to 100% capapacity. I am fairly certain that the good residents of Alpharetta or Marietta would not want a new oil products refinery built in their town. And I can only imagine the environmental issues to build one anywhere in the US. But do you suppose the people of Iraq would object to a major engineering project that would bring a lot of new revenue to their country and thousands of well paying jobs? Would there be a cry about abusing the fragile ecology of the desert? How about the contracts to retrofit the tanker fleets to carry gasoline instead of crude oil?

So, to the tune of the old Pepsodent toothpaste jingle:

"You'll wonder where your money went, when old Dubya's a second term president! And Halliburton construction projects, too!

Grady
10-19-04, 07:10 PM
Leadership involves reaching out to those who disagree in an attempt to persuade and to find common ground. Loudly asserting your position and then slamming those who disagree is the opposite.

On September 12, 2001, George Bush had an historic opportunity to unite the world in a true coaliton to fight terrorists worldwide. He chose instead to listen to Perle, Wolfowitz and others and invade Iraq.

Speck
10-19-04, 07:32 PM
Not to mention listening to the U.N., which passed a resolution asserting the right of any member to take it upon itself to act militarily if Iraq failed to comply with ALL terms agreed to after the Gulf War.

Then, of course, promptly determined to forego that binding resolution for political purposes and allow a ruthless killer to remain in power despite his now- (and then-) proven incompliance with those terms.

------------------
Speck
Follower of Christ
Pursuer of trout




[This message has been edited by Speck (edited 10-19-2004).]

Bob M
10-20-04, 11:02 AM
So we're invading Iran and North Korea? Oh boy! Nuclular war! What fun!

scali
10-20-04, 11:06 AM
What? Where did that come from bob? Iran? Korea? Nuclear War? What? Now that for once I am lost, I would love to know...Where did you get that from?
I guess I will have to put my Kevlar on!

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What? What did I do now? http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/ubbngto/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by scali (edited 10-20-2004).]

Bob M
10-20-04, 11:35 AM
Both Iran and North Korea have nuclear weapons programs. North Korea has weapons on hand and no one knows the status of the Iranian program. The CIA has proven to be unreliable here.

Iran and North Korea have both violated similar provisions and agreements. If failing to fulfill all mandates and agreements is grounds for invasion, then Speck's argument tends towards invading them too. Probably more so since these two countries do have known links and commerce with terrorist organizations where the Iraqi links were tenuous at best and largely illusory.

Of course the US has failed to fulfill all mandates and agreements and poses a threat to other countries. Some of this is a good thing.

The conclusion to this sort of reasoning is that we must invade Iran and North Korea. Their defensive strategy is predictable. It’s also predictable what sort of nuclear proliferation will result from the realization that a nuclear arsenal is the only effective deterrent to overt US invasion. Everyone does the covert bit.

Speck
10-20-04, 11:47 AM
The difference being that with the U.S., North Korea, and Iran, those violated provisions and agreements you mentioned did not allow for unilateral military action.

Iraq's did.


------------------
Speck
Follower of Christ
Pursuer of trout

scali
10-20-04, 11:58 AM
Ok so I have this strange belief that even the dumbest people in the world wouldnt have a nuclear war...i would be more concerned with bio. war than anything, but that too could turn on them, so even if they have nuclear arms i just dont think its worth their time in using them since they wouldnt be around for very long after launching them...but again it is just my opinion...

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What? What did I do now? ;)

Bob M
10-20-04, 12:53 PM
It's probably safe to conclude that their eventual use is a forgone conclusion.

Grady
10-20-04, 04:02 PM
Do we want a commander-in-chief who can't make up his mind on whether it is important to capture Osama Bin Laden?

JOHNKIES
10-20-04, 04:08 PM
Capture Osama? I thought that was supposed to be the Clinton administration's big mistake. I guess if you can't catch him then he doesn't count.

Tom
10-21-04, 07:33 AM
To Bob, John and Grady. I for one have appreciated and respected your views from the other side of the aisle. I certainly don't agree with all of them; but, you do make me think! (I usually check out the links, Grady and through them I have discovered some new sources of information)
I would also hate to see the BOD eliminate any posts that are not fishing oriented. As many have pointed out, if you aren't interested in the "Off Topic Discussions"...well, don't tune in.

Bob M
10-21-04, 04:23 PM
Tom thank you for the kind words and I agree that this is one of the few places where occasional resoned discussion breaks out amidst the usual political knee-jerk.

It's useful to recognize bilge when we see it and very very difficult to see our own. Most of it is buried in the 'assumptions', which happen long before any reasoning takes place. It's not a bad idea to go back and revisit assumptions every now and then to see if there really is an Easter Bunny or a Santa Claus, much as we'd like there to be. Talking to folks that agree with us is an exercise in 'validation' not 'education'. Validation feels good, but it doesn't accomplish anything, unless someone depends on it.

I'm not too sure that we're sitting that far away as I tend to be what one referred to as a '5/6 Republican' and another as an 'Equal Opportunity Offender'. :) I'm curious about the '5/6' reference. That was the resulting score from MSN.com self-test they had the other day. Is there another?reference?

Grady
10-22-04, 09:28 AM
Thanks, Tom. Too many people seem to almost fear any information that doesn't square with their beliefs. Certainly we are all free to weigh the credibility of sources for ourselves and would be foolish not to do so. It's disappointing to me to see people dismiss information from credible news sources out of hand while at the same time parrotting campaign ads as if they are gospel. We get the government we deserve.

fishmonger
10-22-04, 09:36 AM
We aren't seeing many campaign ads in Georgia.

FM

jeffg
10-22-04, 10:04 AM
Why waste money on adds in GA when it will be a GOP state? Best to spend that money elsewhere. IF we rid ourselves of the electorial college and do what CO is doing this year on their ballot, we could go to a forum of the delegates being issued per votin and not winner takes all.
Then my vote as a Liberal would mean something beyond the House of Reps vote/Senate vote....
just my 0.02... doesnt mean though that I wont vote though..
(FM.. sorry just read your Ayn Rand ref on the other thread.. so excuse going back to electorial college issue.. .but on that issue, if we eliminated the electorial college it would start eroding the death grip of the 2 major parties and we may actually have a viable 3rd party emerge..the evolution of democracy maybe? Who knows, cuz who figured that democracy would last this long? How long can it last? Is it like Marx stated and just a step in the evolution of government? Since communism didnt work, and democracy by the people is being taken over by democracy by the special interests and lobbyist, when does it evolve into a country run by international business's and thier interests of just earning more money? Not to be a cynic, but when do we reach the point where capitalism superceeds the rights of the citizens? And who should be more protected the businesses or the citizens?
Ahh...sitting in traffic for 20 min moving at 1-2mph can get one on a rant)

[This message has been edited by jeffg (edited 10-22-2004).]