What rod would you build?

[Hollis]

I know everyone has an opinion on this so here goes:
What rod would you build if you were building one? What is your favorite brand of blank and who would you buy supplies from?

I'm thinking of building a 6'6" 3wt (it made a good impression on me- thanks Fishin' Preacher). I'm just not sure what brand to buy. I like the Hook and Hackle kits but wouldn't mind buying stuff locally. I'm also unsure what kind of reel seat to buy. I got maple on my first rod and wouldn't mind something different on my next one.

-Hollis

[TangledUp]

Hey Hollis - have you built a large rod yet? Try a 5 or 6wt.

I built a deep blue colored Forecast 9ft 3pc 5wt last year and it is now my sink-tip and bass-bugging rod. Got all my things from hook&hackle. Been using it on the DH and otherwise with great success. Helps to get those streamers down deeeeep. (this rod was built to combat my chronic breaking of my St Croix 4wt 3 times in one year... at the biggest ferrule, ow)


TangledUp

[FlyBy]

Having bought components from Custom Tackle, Mudhole, H&H and Dorber, I would rate Mudhole and H&H as having the best service and Custom Tackle as the worst. H&H has great prices and service, and if you order online you get another 20% off. I've bought reel seats from REC and they also have great service and a wide selection of reel seats. When I was buliding a rod on a dark gray blank, REC picked out a gray California Buckeye Burl seat that really looked good on the finished rod.

FlyBy

[GUTHOOKED]

If I were going to do a short 3wt, my first choice would be the Lamiglas Appalachian. They are some of the lightest, smoothest casting rods I've ever cast. They are however a little pricey at about $130. If you're looking for something a little cheaper, Rainshadow makes a 6'6" 2 wt that is a steal at less than $50. I thing Bingham has some on clearance for about half that right now. They are also sold by H&H under their house label.

As for buying supplies locally, good luck. Most of the flyshops will order parts for you, but as far as I know, nobody local carries any rodbuilding supplies. I order most of my supplies from REC, Golden Witch, Shoff Tackle, and Angler's Workshop. The service and the products have been top notch from all of them, but none ever seem to have everything I need for any given rod. Custom Tackle probably has the largest selection, but if you want to get it any time in the near future, I would go somewhere else. It always seems like half of my order is backordered. I have also dealt with Mudhole, H&H, and J Stockard, and have gotten good service.

The reelseat is pretty much a matter of personal preference. I like REC, Bellinger, and some of Struble's seats, but pretty much anything will do the job. For a 3wt, I would look for a small (.600" - .650") diameter seat, though. If you don't see any wood you like, let me know. I've got quite a bit of exotic wood here and would be more than happy to turn out an insert for any round barrel seat. I don't currently have the tooling to do mortised inserts, though.

[GonetoSeed]

For a "close to local" supplier and NGTO supporter, contact David Edens at Blue Ridge Rods. His site is listed to the left under resources. His 6' 6" 2 wt builds into a sweet little rod.

Tangledup mentioned Forecast. A favorite of mine is their 7' 9" 3 wt. The price on this blank is a true value (for some, its too cheap to be a good blank, their loss), escpecially with the Hook and Hackle online discount

I also build a lot of rods on Batson Rainshadow RX7 blanks. I do buy mine from Bob at Custom Tackle. I did have backorder problems in the past. Now I call and talk to Bob and have him check inventory.

I agree with FlyBy's suggestion of REC seats. I use their AL cap and ring seats on light weight rods (the other seats are excellent too). They have sizes for very light, small diameter blanks that keep the rod light in weight and doesn't require as much arbor spacing. As FlyBy says, a lot of choices in inserts that are great looking and also are mortised and hold the reel tight.

And, if you do decide on a light weight rod, take a look at REC's Recoil guides. Extremely light weight, but because they are made with the same TI alloy as unbreakable eye glass frames, they are exceptionally durable and "rhodie proof".

My first post passed Guthook's. I built a Lamiglass Appalachian 7' 3wt 3pc (can never have to many 3 wts). This blank costs more than the ones I mention above, but I think it is very much worth the extra. What makes this series unique is that it is built with high modulus and therefore has a small diameter, is very light in weight and a fast recovery speed. But, its taper is a moderate action. Almost all high modulus blanks are also fast action.

Here's a picture:

http://www.fishingphotos.net/photopost/data/504/1093wt.jpg

[James Buice]

I would call the shop and ask for Brian Stout. He's a professional rod builder and can give you the insight as to what to buy and where to get it. 404-237-3473.

[GUTHOOKED]

GTS, very nice work! I like the grip design - quite unique. What kind of wood did you use?

[GonetoSeed]

Thanks Danny. It's a piece of cherry from a limb one of my sons brought back from Colorado. Dried for about a year. The accents are burl cork. The finish is Casey's Tru-Oil (used on gun stocks). btw, some people ask if it is slippery when wet, it's not. The seat is REC and the insert cork turned with the grip.

One of the reasons I started building was to get the grip shape(s) and sizing I wanted. I like half or full wells on all my rods. I use a thumb on top grip to cast and these shapes help me (and I need all the help I can get).

One of the reasons I have started using wood is the price of cork. It's getting to where the grip is going to be the most expensive component on the rod. Now that I have been using wood, I'm also liking the unique look that you can get from each individual piece. Here's one of the Forecast 7'9" 3wts I've finished. This grip is a piece of hickory from a tree that fell in my yard. This blank was also stripped and painted and finished to a color other than gray or green. I've gotten tired of the matte finish blanks. The wraps don't show it in this picture, they are gunmetal gray. Also, the seat is one of the new Batson's that accepts round inserts.

http://www.fishingphotos.net/photopost/data/500/1093wtcropped-med.jpg

[deltaflyer]

GTS,
Those are absolutely beautiful!

[Robert Hicks]

GTS and others.....we should see a drop in cork prices over the next year or so. Most of the wine folks are going to the "plastic cork" and it should free up a good deal of the high end cork. With that said....I'm still willing to pay a pretty penny for good cork.
Also, Golden Witch has their A- 1/2" rings on sale.....if you have gotten stuff from them in the past you should have gotten a flyer from them. The sale ends 12/10. These may not be the "top of the line" rings but they aren't too bad....and if you need to practice turning grips...why not? :)

[GUTHOOKED]

A drop in cork prices would definitely be nice. Turning an all cork grip is costing me around $25, about twice as much as buying one premade. I've done quite a few wood grips and usually use some burl cork. I love the wood grips on spinning and casting rods, but on a fly rod they tend to blister my hand after a few days. I really don't like the added weight of using alot of burl cork. Here's a few different grips that I've turned over the last year or two.

http://www.fishingphotos.net/photopost/data/500/530MVC-001F-med.JPG

The 8 wt with the cocobolo/ebony/burl cork was probably my favorite cosmetically, but after a week of casting that beast every day, my right hand was meat. Its a good pain though. ;)

[GonetoSeed]

Those are great looking grip/inserts. For shape and function, I really like the one on the far left that is all one piece with the slip rings. The 4th from left, is that California Buckeye Burl and is the insert split? Is there an inlay in the split? Looks great. Turning burl without blow outs is hard for me. I'm not very good at keeping the chisels sharp enough.

I agree about the weight of burl. Although not only do I like the look of burl accents, I think that some burl can help with balance, especially on longer rods that may be a little tip heavy. Also, to lighten both burl and wood, they can be bored and the foam block arbors inserted to bring down the weight. This is also a good use for the cheap wine bottle corks :)

As far as blisters, a week of fishing so hard that I get blisters, with any grip material, is a pain I would look forward to :) But I understand the issue. Here's an 8 wt cork/burl grip that I built on an Allstar blank:

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/042506.jpg


I've heard contradictory reports about the price of cork. One distributor told me that because of the switch to plastic stoppers and even twist off caps, the demand for cork is falling so much that the cork tree farmers are getting out of the business and converting their farms to other uses, lowering production. I hope that is not the case. evne though I like to blend other materials, high quality cork is my preffered material (as long as it doesn't exceed the price of the blank :) )

Thanks for the heads up on the Golden Witch sale. I think it's fun just to visit and read the stuff on Russ's site. It's just very dangerous. Easy to come a way with some extras.

[GUTHOOKED]

Thanks for the compliments. I like the way the grip turned out on the first one, too, but I really don't care for the rod. Its a Rainshadow 5' 2wt, and its just painfully slow. Obviously I wasn't expecting a cannon, but this thing flexes all the way into the grip when you cast it.

The 4th from left, is that California Buckeye Burl and is the insert split? Is there an inlay in the split?

Yes, yes, and yes. :) Everybody seems to like that one the best. Funny, while I am pleased with the way it turned out, its really not one of my favorites.

There are lots of types of burls there are quite easy to turn, especially buckeye and redwood. The buckeye grip above was actually turned with a drill press and a file, back before I got my lathe. Also, we managed to cobble together a vacuum impregnation system to help out with some of the more delicate stuff. I'm sure its not as good as commercial stabilization, but it seems to do the trick.

Love the 8wt, BTW. What kind of thread did you use? I like that color.

[GUTHOOKED]

P.S. Sorry to hijack your thread, Hollis. ;)

[TangledUp]

I just finished the wraps on my first cane rod tonight! I stripped down an old Japanese cane rod my grandfather gave me 10 yrs ago. Don't freak out - not a recognized name from any american builder. It actually had no markings at all in english characters. Anyway - Can't wait to finish the varnishing this wknd. From the looks of it , we have some very talented rodbuilders in our midst. Would anyone care to lend some advice to me regarding finishing?

I got Gudebrod #822 varnish from Golden Witch for the wraps. Is this suitable? I have only done graphite rods to this point, and have always used high-build flexcoat for the wraps. Do I go through the same process here (but with a few coats of varnish, instead of flexcoat of course?)

I do not have a dipping tube, so I suppose I will brush on a thin coat of varnish after all the wraps are sealed.

Any NGTOers used this type of varnish before? It comes in a 1fl oz squeeze bottle, and it says "clean up with water" on the label. I have read that SPAR is the way to go, but I thought I would try something else. Suggestions? Stop me if I'm messing this thing up. Photos coming tomorrow.

Thanks guys

Hollis - also sorry for the jack here, let me know if you want to borrow a rod wrapping stand. Runner lent me one of his homemade models last year with the understanding that I would pass it on to an NGTO builder. Thanks Mike - I have used it several times now.

TangledUp

[fishnpreacher]

I have finished several Bamboo rods and have brushed on the finish. Most dip their rods, but I have not gotten into that just yet. I use a marine grade spar varnish called Man-O-War. There are 2 finishes, satin and gloss, And I like the gloss. Most finishers use multiple coats, with dilution rates as much as 70/30 and dip the rods. I brush it on straight out of the can, usually 2 coats, making sure to fill all gaps around guides, wraps, winding check, etc. There are plenty of others here who can give you more (and better) advise, but this has worked for me.
And Hollis, I appreciate the compliments on the 3wt. It is by far my favorite small stream rod. It was built by Dave Edens and has single foot guides, which help the action, imo. It is a joy to fish and can handle 14" bows fairly easily :) Great thread, guys!!

[runner]

Wrap the ferrules with two layers of masking tape to prevent the varnish from getting on them. Tape on a loop of 15 pound monofilament from which to hang the sections. Hang the butt by the cork grip and the tips by the ferrules. If the rod has a mid section, it is hung with the male ferrule. Run the shower with hot water for several minutes. The steam will settle any dust from the air. For those of you who do not have showers, an electrostatic air cleaner also works well. Then, hang the rod sections in section of 4" plastic pipe using hooks made from paper clips made into hooks and place a clean can or jar under the pipe section ends (have the pipe sit on some wood blocks so you can remove the collected varnish). Pour the thinned varnish over the sections using an inexpensive plastic squirt bottle. Apply the finish 3 or 4 times to ensure completely coated section. Let them hang undisturbed for two days. Wife's love having this in the bathroom They will be tack free and will not attract dusk. Holding the sections by their monofilament loops, move them CAREFULLY to an out-of-the-way place and let the sections cure for 48 hours. Then, gently rub the sections down with 4/0 steel wool or fine sandpaper to remove any imperfections. Wipe the sections with a tack cloth to remove the dust before repeating the dipping process. After allowing 48 hours cure time, polish out the blanks with a good grade of automotive polish and wax if desired.

Another method - get 3/4" plastic pipe the lenght of the rod section or longer, attach an end cap, drill a 1/16 hole in the end cap and seal with a tooth pick- fill the tube with varnish - tap ferrules like above - then dip the rod in and revove it slowly 2-3 times then insert the rod - hang the rod up - have a small can under the pipe -pull out the toothpick plug and let the varnis drain - cover the top of the tube with a piece of a tack rag - let sit for 3-4 days.

Varnish type - Sparsman Red -available from Highland Hardware, Spar varnish from Benjamen Moore, some have been using the new polyurethane varnish from Heldmans with ggod results - I thin mine 30% with turpentine not mineral spirits whic may cloud the finish.

Mike

[Windknot]

Hollis - I have to concur w/GTS - you never have too many 3wts! I have a 6' & 7.5', and am toying w/an 8.5' to 9', which I REALLY need. Same thing with his comment about our own grips. I am spoiled, and dislike using factory handles as they are much more tiring than my own.

GTS & Danny - Beautiful work! It seems like every time I get the "urge to build" under control, one of you posts a picture of a drop-dead gorgeous project, and the fever returns! :D

Don

[Hollis]

Don't apollogize for "jacking" the thread. Heck fire, I'm learning tons from reading all these posts. I've kinda settled on doing a 6'6" 2 or 3 wt. for my dad and then doing one for myself. Those custom handles have my mind whirrling. That is the coolest thing you could ever do on a rod.

.....won't be long and I'll be needing help on doing that!

Keep up the conversation guys!
-Hollis

[GonetoSeed]

hollis - I'm sorry too for the hi-jacking, but the thread does answer your question in a round about way - so many potential projects, so little time :) You mentioned the next project being a short 3 wt. Good choice for the Mtns. Then next (there will always be a next), unless you already have one, maybe a fast 6 wt with all SF ceramics, AL seat and fighting butt for river bass (Flint for Shoalies or Little Tn for smallies) and/or big stream trout and light saltwater. Lots of ways to build out 6 wts not commonly available from factory rods. (See the comments below regarding Dan Craft and Allstar Austin blanks).

Danny - the thread is Gudebrod Classic Twist Black/Orange with CP. I like Classic Twist because it puts a little pizzaz in wraps on plastic blanks, but doesn't go over the top (even has a "traditional" look to please the tradition police :) ). They keep adding color combinations. The black/green and black/yellow, imo, dress up green or brown blanks.

Don - the addiction never goes away, it's always one more 3 wt from re-surfacing. If, like me, the first symptom of a relapse is perusing new catalogs, and you are being drawn to a longer 3 wt, and you are thinking a faster 3 wt will fill a small gap in the arsenal, take a look at Dan Craft's Sig V or FTs ( http://www.dancraftent.com/loadit.html ). These blanks are right in there with the ones made by companies starting with S or O, but a lot less expensive (lower marketing cost and no prestige premium :) ). Another long, fast 3 wt is the 9' 3wt in Allstar's Austin series (yes, the bass rod people). This blank with ceramics will throw big ole bream poppers 40+' with ease. Not that you like to bream fish :)

[mmarkey]

I'm starting a 6'6" G Loomis, GL3 very soon. This is my first rod project and I wanted to keep it simple.

[TangledUp]

OK - finally got the photos today - thanks for all the good advice on the Spar. I think I'm leaning that way now. Guess you don't need to actually dip the rod, just dripping the varnish works too.this rod is a Christmas pres for my father-in-law, a huge LSU fan as you can probably tell by the wraps ;).
Here's the pre-finished wrapped rod. I used Golden Witch for the seat, the guides and the agate, my favorite part. Those guys in PA are top-notch.
http://www.captainsmokeys.org/qualitytime/images/P1010015.jpg
http://www.captainsmokeys.org/qualitytime/images/P1010019.jpg
http://www.captainsmokeys.org/qualitytime/images/P1010020.jpg

[Windknot]

GTS - Oh, yeah, I have DC's catalog on the harddrive. Not sure exactly what a "spiral finish" is, but his and All Star's have been delayed (by me) due to color..I REALLY don't like gray. Black either, for that matter. Guess I'm just a green, brown or burgundy guy. But so far I've avoided adding blank painting to my hobbies.

I've read wonderful things about those two vendors and their blanks, especially the 3wts of 8'4" to 9'. Dan has answered quite a few questions before I spent a dime with him, so I've been quite impressed. Tom Kirkland has written often about the All Star 3wt blanks.

Don
101 degrees

[GonetoSeed]

Hollis - imo, a grip is an important way to personalize a rod. Not only cosmetically, but also functionally. The factories for valid reasons have to pick a one-size-fits all approach. But, hand size, finger length, preferred way to grip, etc are very personal to the angler. For example, almost all the shorter, lighter rods will have a super fine grip. imo, these work great with an index finger forward grip, but can present the need for stroke mechanical adjustments if the angler wants to keep a thumb on top grip. Not really a big deal obviously, but an opportunity to tweak a rod to help the angler, in this case keeping the same basic grip for all rods. Here's a full wells grip destined for a 6' 6" 2 wt. It's a little shorter and smaller diameter for the smaller rod, but keeps the wells shape. If you want to try turning, let me know. You're welcome to use my tools and I would be glad to share lessons learned.

http://www.myfishingpictures.com/img/042555.jpg

Nothing like a close-up to point out opportunities for improvement :). btw, the glue lines are intentional. The back of the rings were stained. An attempt to look like some of the early boos.

TangledUp - great looking rod, except for the colors of course. Next time try White & Gold :) I've yet to try Golden Witch Agates, but have plans for those and a rattan grip.

Don - I agree with the gray and black. I have painted blue for school colors for someone and the Garnet blank above was home paint job. Painting is not too big of a deal. I know you are out at Rodbuilding.org a lot so you know all the alternatives. You should try it, not that much more to add to the addiction. btw, I think the spiral finish is like the old Orvis Superfine series.

[Robert Hicks]

TangledUp,
Keep in mind that the yellow...or gold wraps will not be yellow or gold after you put the spar on the them. They will darken up...go clear in spots.....unless you use a color preserver....and I have yet to find one that I like....so good luck. If you used harvest gold silk.....which is what it looks like to me....then the wraps will look good. I did one for my brother in-law for xmas last year and I was very very happy with the way that the wraps turned out. I used Helmsman poly....you can get it at Homedepot, and it's a heck of alot cheaper than Spar. Thin the first coat about 40/60 to make sure you get it in the silk good, then apply a few un-cut coats. I would also suggest that you buff the wraps with some 2000grit auto detail paper....but only after you have covered the wraps very good. I would think that it should take one maybe two good coats before you have them covered enough to start sanding. Using spar, or the poly.....you _will not_ be able to get them this clear...but unless you use a good color preserver you will get some clear spots. http://webpages.charter.net/rhicks925/clear5.JPG

Drop me an email if you need any help or advice.

[TangledUp]

Man Robert - that looks so cool. Did you use a translucent gold or brown for that one? I opted to not use color-preserver this time, being prety curious as to how transparent the varnish would make the thread. I put one coat of spar on last night, cut only about 70 varnish / 30 turp and got a cool semi-transparent effect. I think this rod is working out as a good lesson in color-changes. Like you said, the purple got a little darker, and the gold got a little darker but got quite translucent. Good advice on the ultrafine sandpaper, I'll be sure to sand out the small bumps before I do another couple of coats.

Side note: I got online and found out you can make an alcohol lamp yourself out of a small glass jar and a cotton ball wick. Just drill a small hole in the lid, twist the cotton into a wick, fill with denatured or everclear, and bingo - rod straightening, thread-fuzz-removing, alc lamp. I used it to straighten out a pretty bad set that had developed in the tip section over the years. This is going to be addictive... bamboo, not the ethanol lamp ;)

Thanks for all the excellent help, and Hollis, again sorry for the 'jack bro.

TangledUp

[mmarkey]

Gone to seed
I really like the cork seat you have on the grey rod several posts earlier.
Did you make that yourself or did you buy it and if so where?
That is exactly the grip (without the wood) and seat combo I'm planning for my new 3 wt. The only change I will make is maybe gold or black hardware haven't decided yet.

[GonetoSeed]

mmarkey - I turn my grips and inserts. I would be happy to turn one for you or if you want to turn one and don't have access to a lathe and mandrels, you are welcome to use mine. I'd be happy to help.

The seat is a REC CRA (AL) skeleton ( http://www.rec.com/rec/web/html/alumseat.html ). I think it comes in nickel silver, champagne and black colors. I've not found a pure gold coloered cap and ring skeleton. I think it is difficult to get a finish that does not wear. Maybe one of the other builders knows where you might get one if you decide on gold. I would like to know too. I have a 6'6" 2 wt Rainshadow in their green color that I'm thinking of using gold components. If have the single foot snakes already in gold, just haven't found a gold seat skeleton I like. I am thinking of getting simple gold toe rings and making a double sliding ring seat.

btw, using toe rings or cosmetic jewelry chain is an inexpensive way to add unique winding checks.

[mmarkey]

Gone to seed
Thanks for the offer, maybe I'll take a raincheck. I was able to locate a reel seat with cork for $13 Check it out.
http://www.landmarkflyrodtubes.com/rod_components/reel_seats.htm
Comes in Gold and Black And silver.
I'm Leaning toward the Gold
with Gold guides and Garnet wraps with a gold accent thread all on a 6'6" Loomis GL3 3 wt. which is mahogany in color.

[GonetoSeed]

Sounds beautiful.

This grip doesn't come in gold, but one to keep in mind for your next light weight rod. It's very similiar to the one grip/insert one-piece that Danny shows in his picutre.

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Details.aspx?itemno=025073400007

[mmarkey]

Gone to seed
I was considering a grip like that but I've never used slide rings and was wondering if they really lock in or do you have to keep fussig with them to keep your reel on. Let me know what you think. I still have time to change the grip. I considering an Orvis BBS-II for a reel for this outfit, I already have a III that I use on my 5 wt. Think it's a great reel for the price.

[Robert Hicks]

TU,
That was a seaweed green.(same as the Sprig) I just used Helmsman on the wraps for the "Sprig". To make it go clear I used some of the alchemist varnish that GW offers. It's really high...$35 for an ounce...I think. But well worth the money. I have tried using linseed oil....but not too happy with the results. I can get the wraps to go clear but when it starts drying it gets ugly...bubbles up and all kinds of ugly things. I'll be starting on two rods in the next week or so and should have a few more photos in Jan....if all goes well :)

Before you start sanding make sure that you have the wraps 100% covered....don't ask how I know this....just trust me.(and take your time...don't get in a hurry) Also, while using that high grit paper, you may want to add just a drop of linseed...it will help keep the paper from loading up. And....you may want to just buy a cheap alch lamp....I think you can find some glass ones for a few bucks....making something that holds a very very volatile fluid may not be the smartest thing to do ;)

[GonetoSeed]

I have no trouble with double sliding rings on a cork insert on a light rod. The cork will indent slightly to form fit with the reel seat foot. If you don't use a cork seal, the cork will actually swell as it gets wet and the fit tighter. Holding hasn't been a problem, some times breaking down has required a little extra oomph.

However, I have seen some really old seats where the indentions are permanent, the cork harder and so the reel may slip some, but with care and upkeep this shouldn't happen.

If the insert is wood, imo, it needs to be mortised (or a flat) and the rings to be tapered to hold best. GW has these type rings.

I too really like the BBS. For me, they have the classic look and function of the Hardy's, at a far better price. The II should balance nicely with your rod. btw, this is another feature of double sliding rings that is nice, moving the reel just a little can help balance the rod.