Building my first rod

[mmarkey]

From the many things I've seen and read I have been tempted beyond resistance to try another new hobby. Like I really need one.

My first rod is a 6'6" Loomis GL3, 3wt. The blanks a nice mahogany color and i'm fitting it with a chapagne and cork reel seat cigar grip and gold guides the wraps are going to be garnet and metallic gold haven't decided whether to let them go transparent or keep the color strong. I'm going to test it on some old hunting arrows.

Still waiting for a few things to arrive in the mail. Will post pictures of progress.

[runner]

I have a extra NGTO rod wrapper you can borrow - I can also meet with you to get you started - guide wrapping, trim wraps if you like - I live just a bit south of you in Powder Springs - Mike

[GonetoSeed]

Good idea using the arrow for practice and helping understand the effects of color preserver (CP) or no CP. If you keep using the same arrow for each new project, you will accumulate a nice color stick for final wrap color combinations on graphite colored blanks (assuming the arrow shaft is gray).

The only thing to keep in mind is that final wrap thread color on dark colored blanks (like the GL3), is effected by the bleed though of blank color, especially light colored thread without CP. But even dark thread like Garnet with no CP will be effected in a small way by the underlying blank color. One way to determine actual final wrap color is to use practice wraps and finish on the butt section. You make your decision and then remove them. Any sign of the practice wraps will ultimately be hidden under the seat/grip.

Another good thing about doing it on the blank butt, especially for dark colored blanks, is it will show you just how good you are at packing the thread. The majority of "blotches" that show up on wraps that have been CPed and then finished is very, very small gaps in the thread that don't show up to the naked eye, but jump out at you when the underlying blank color shows through - after you have applied your finish :( . If this is the first time you are using CP, I highly recommend you do some practice wraps. It's hard not to try to go directly to gratification of finishing the project, but in the long run it will save you a lot of time and frustration.

An additional suggestion is to not use thinner in your CP, but if you feel compelled to because most CPs are think, never dillute more than 10%. CP works by depositing solids in the thread that prevents the finish from entering the thread and turning it the wet/translucent look. If the CP is thinned to much, its the thinner that is moving into the thread and not the solids. It will evaporate and leave the thread un-protected, usually in a random pattern that will be color fast in spots, translucent in others.

[mmarkey]

Thanks for the feedback. Runner if I run into a problem with my test wraps I'll probably give you a call for help. I'm thinking of inlaying a couple of feathers in the but area.

Gone to seed, good suggestions never thought of using the butt under the grip as a test area. Will definetly do that. I think i have some old green camo arrows that I was goint to test on.

I have a question for you. When I was ordering color protectant. I mistakenly ordered a bottle of "color protectectant finish" got it from Cabelas and it's a clear liquid with a brush in the cap of the bottle. I havn't opened it yet because I thought i read somewhere that this stuff starts to cure when it's exposed to air.
It is not a mix. Have you ever used this stuff and what are its properties if you know?

[GonetoSeed]

Cabelas store brand is essentially a lacquer. I have not used it, but my experience with using other lacquers (Varathane) as color preserver is the wrap will turn slightly darker than the off-the-spool color and imo also slightly darker than wraps coated with the acrylic (Flexcoat) or acrylic/urethane (Gudebrod) CPs. This is neither good or bad, it all depends on the look you are after. This is another reason to build a color stick with an old piece of blank - trying different CP. Fishhawk carries Gudebrod 811 and maybe Flexcoat (can't remember), so it's possible to give both a try. It also gives you practice. A lot of builders - very good builders - hate CP because it is one more step in the building process and therefore one more step to introduce a problem. Some also think it weakens the wrap strength. This isn't true, but I will say that if the finish doesn't completely cover the wrap (exposed edges or tunnel) and the CP is acrylic, water seeping in will destroy the wrap/

As a lacquer it will cure when exposed to air. A simple way to give it shelf life is to place clean (new) SS ball bearings or marbles into the jar as you use it. There are also neutral gas sprays that you can use. I think Golden Witch carries some.

Along with the darker color, some builders do prefer the thinness of the lacquer or urethane (Permagloss is a urethane specifically formulated for wrap and rod finishing) as a CP. They find them easier to consistently apply. Even though I use it, I do think Gudebrod 811 takes some getting use to because it is thick and gooey like. I think it works best when you want the color to be as close to the spool color as possible. It's also what I'm used to (a reason you will soon find for people recommending the "best" of something).

[GUTHOOKED]

I rarely use color preserver, and the only one I've tried is Gudebrod 811. Before anyone told me not to do it, I found that its much easier to apply if you thin it with about 25% isopropyl alcohol. Guess what - it works. ;) You do need to use several coats (3-5), but it dries quickly so you can finish all of them in a couple hours. I've done several rods like this now, and I've had no problems at all. Now, if someone knows of problems this will cause over the long haul, please let me know so I'll stop doing it. :D

[GonetoSeed]

Just as you pointed out in an earlier thread, there are about as many techniques as there are builders :) I will say that when you say 3-5 coats, this is important if a CP like 811 is thinned. Also, your point about applying the coats in a short period of time is also key. I think the alcohol is acting like an additional solvent and each successive coat is "melting" the one before it (that is most likely dry but not fully cured). I think this is probably giving you good penetration and spreading the solids. The "why" is not really as important as the fact that it works for you!

As far as the long haul, based on some of your other posts, I'm sure that you are filling the tunnel (Dave Edens makes this important point in his post) and making sure the finish doesn't wick away from the edges exposing the thread. Water penetration should not be a problem. Water getting into a wrap with acrylic CP will first turn it cloudy and eventually the thread will soften and let the guide come loose.

btw, my technique when using 811 is to make sure it is at room temperature and apply one heavy flood coat, making sure that the thread turns consistently dark and wet looking. (One thinned coat would not work). I let it dry overnight. My only problem was on one rod where I got in a hurry and did not pack the threads tight enough. There were little blotches where the blank showed through between the wraps. This was not the 811's fault, it was operator error. Now I pack until I think the wrap is tight and pack again. If it is light thread I use a magnifying glass to check and make sure there are no gaps, especially along the foot. Guide foot prep is the one step I really do not like and sometimes I do not get the ramp up the foot correct and it causes problems. It's a pain, but catching it before finishing stops a whole lot of cussing and throwing things later :)

[Robert Hicks]

now now....we all know that no one would cuss or throw anything... ;)

[Rollcaster]

There's nothing like catching the first fish on a rod you built. I could only recommend asking others lots of questions and reading everything you can before attempting the rod. I had lots of help from a website rodbuilding.com. Great bunch of people with lots of experience. The two things I learned after building my first last year was to use graphite arbors in the handle and learn how to use a locking wrap on single-foot guides. Also buy a rod dryer from somewhere. I picked mine up off ebay and it works great. I also built a stand for holding the rod while wrapping the guides. A 1x4 v-notched with screen door wheels does an excellent job of holding the rod without marring the finish on the blank. Have some patience and you'll have a great rod. Good Luck and keep us posted on the outcome of the rod or any question.
Rollcaster........................

[TangledUp]

Runner has great advice, I attended a session he hosted at the vinings library last year that has helped immensely with building my first rod.
Have fun with the first one, you will definitely like it and fish with it even if it's not exactly perfect the first time. But hey, instruction can probably make sure you do it closer to perfect the first time. Wish I was a credible resource, but with only 3 rods under my belt I will defer to these guys.
I took Robert's advice on the varnishing on my last one and was very pleased.

My basic guidelines:

1. When wrapping guides, masking tape is your friend
2. Find the natural spline of the rod before you mark yor guide positions
3. Flexcoat takes more than 30 mins to dry, flip your blank often when sealing the wraps.
4. and most important... always, always, mount the winding check before you wrap the stripping guide. Don't ask me how I know this. ;)

Have fun, post pics

TangledUp

[Robert Hicks]

but what do you do if you mount the ferrule and the winding check will not go over the female ferrule????? I just forced mine on, and had to re-blue the female.... kind of sucked ;)
I second the first fish on your own rod....nothing like it. I wouldn't show my first rod to anyone....yet I still fish with it....I do run and hide when I see others on the stream.....but hey ;)

[mmarkey]

Just to let yall know. I hear you. I JUST HOPE I'M LISTENING. If you get my drift. :rolleyes:

I'll definetly post photos as the project progresses. I've already changed the reel seat, I've decided to use a black seat with cork, instead of the gold and cork that I had ordered. I'm going to use a black Orvis BBSII on this rod and thought it would look better on a black seat than gold. I guess i'll have to use the gold seat on another rod.

I've got all my components except the reel seat and grip. I got my threads, garnet and Gold metallic.

The gold metallic is real shiney. I plan on using it sparingly about 3 wraps on each side of the guides.

[mmarkey]

Got the reel seat from landmark. not what I wanted for this project. The butt cap has a somewhat sharp edge on it. Decided not to use it here. ordered a new one from Cabelas, a REC small Nickle silver with rosewood model.

I'm really fond of nickle silver reel seats. :)

[mmarkey]

I got my new reel seat and grip yesterday. They were exactly what I wanted. Reshaped the grip to a nice gentle cigar shape that blends perfectly into the reel seat. The reshaping opened a couple of small pits in the cork that i don't like and I'm going to fix them tonight. Everything fits LIKE A GLOVE. Planning to post pictures.

Since the rod kit was my Santa present from my wife. I really wasn't able to play with it till Christmas. But now, watch out. :D

[The Ole Man]

MM--when you get ready to fill those cork pits, there is a fairly new product that does a great job of matching color and filling those pits. Elmers Professional Wood Filler --Interior/Exterior, comes in a vinyl squeeze tube. Stainable, sandable and shrink-free. The Golden Oak is an almost perfect match for most cork. Fill a little above flush with an artists spatula, and sand with fine paper (400). Got mine at Lowes.

[mmarkey]

Thank you sir.
I'll stop on my way home today and get some. I was going to do the mix and paste process. This sounds better. I'll give it a try. :)

[mmarkey]

Well here is a picture of my rod so far. Ole Man I used your tip in the filler for the cork it is excellent. I appreciate the tip.

The grip below is the original grip before I reshaped it. The real seat is REC nickle silver and Amboyna wood spacer.

http://ngto.launchpage.com/album64/album/Member_Photos/mmarkey/flyrod.jpg

[GonetoSeed]

Very nice job. I really like the contrast between the dark insert and the grip. Appears to have a "fatter" diameter under the palm and going further up the grip which I personally like because I have big ham hocks for hands. The factory superfine grips on most small rods are just too small for me. I look forward to more pics.

[TangledUp]

Mike - that looks great. I really like the reds and burgundys. And the REC seat is nice looking too. What type of blank did you get again?
Once again - nice work!

TangledUp

[mmarkey]

It's a 6'6" Loomis GL3 2 piece. The blank is a dark brown mahogany color.
The wraps you can see in the photo havn't been finished, and they will probably darken somewhat. In my tests the darkened to almost the color of the rod but in bright light the garnet really glows. And there is a metallic spiral of 5 wraps as a trim.

[The Ole Man]

Looks good Mike. Pete Holland (Korndunker) just finished a similar rod blank. I had built out a now discontinued, Loomis IM6 blank (8', 2/3 weight) in the same color- reddish mahogany brown. I used the garnet thread--it looks good with this blank ( I also built a 9', 5 wt, 3 pc Sage LLine using the garnet thread). Pete saw my Loomis and wanted to use the same thread. I loaned him a spool of garnet and one of gold metallic for trim. His rod turned out very well too. I think Pete said he got his blank from an ebay seller called "coachflyshop" in Mass. Think he said they have 250 of these mahogany Loomis blanks for sale at a good price (blems I think).

[GUTHOOKED]

Nice work, Mike!

Post some more pics as the rod progresses.

[deltaflyer]

that's a beautiful rod Mike! I love the shape of the grip.

[Josh Barnett]

Makes me want to really get into rod building.

Can anyone here send an e-mail pr PM to me explaining what all I need, and how easy it will be.

Joshua Barnett

[Chuck Morris]

Josh,
There is a lot of help on the web for rod building. You might want to check out Rodcrafters. I don't live that far from you and I'm around the a
Athens area quite often. I would be more than happy to lend you my Dale Clemens books on rod building( there are 3 of them). These imho are probably the best books on rod building available. They take you from beginning to end. Novice to expert. If you're interested let me know .

Chuck

[The Ole Man]

Josh--I would recommend the Bob Widgren Rod Building Seminar at VFS. It is very helpful and it even has Quicktime videos along with the text. That was my first rod building instruction reference a few years back. VFS also has a rod build message board for your questions and answers. Ditto the rodbuilding.org message board.

[mmarkey]

For everyone that's interested here are the rest of the photos that I promised. I am very, very pleased with the outcome bu I'll let yall be the judges. Any and all coments accepted (favorable and unfavorable).

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=567&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=564&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=565&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=566&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=568&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=569&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Well that's my new rod. I really enjoyed building it and thought it was much easier than I expected. I think it went very smoothly but I had a lot of help from all yall. Thanks to everyone who had a hand in my success.

[GonetoSeed]

Great job. I really like the alternating inlay threads, very classy. I'm most impressed with the inscription. That's one of the hardest things for me to do. My handwriting is pretty bad on a flat piece of paper much less on a curved blank. What did you use for the pen?

[Chuck Morris]

Great job! I'm very impressed with the inlaid gold trim on all the wraps. I know how difficult that can be. Once again Great Job!!May you have many great adventures with it.