Looking for a new rod

[OldDawg]

I broke my 9' 5 wgt 4 pc Saturday. Orvis Silver Label Mid-flex. (bought at the warehouse sale & not covered by warranty)

What are your recommendations for a replacement? Sage and Loomis are too expensive. The new Cabelas ff catalog has many rods but they are hard tro compare in a catalog. (Quite a selection in that catalog get a copy if you do not laready have it)

Rod is used on the Hooch.

[deltaflyer]

St. Croix Legend Ultra rods are great American made sticks with a lifetime warranty, leading edge technology in their design and priced where there not out of sight. Try a 905-4 at the Fish Hawk and see if you don't find it to be a great rod.

I love mine!

[skibum]

Ditto!!!!!!

[Bob M]

The Cabela's PT's are good, and about the same action as your mid-flex. It might be a touch faster. I got one for my brother, tried it in the back yard, and liked it enough to get a FT for me.

I heard that they were built on Loomis blanks, but am not certain of it. We've broken one or two of them in AK (where we've been known to break rods in prodigeous quantities) and Cabela's came through with a speedy repair/replacement with thier usual excellent customer service.

If you aren't going to buy from a local shop, Cabela's would be tough to beat.

[The Ole Man]

How much do you want to spend ?? There is something for everybody in rods today.

[OldDawg]

$100-$200.

[TheEndlessEnigma]

i recommend these as i purchased one recently and it has stood up to everything i have thrown at it and it is in my opinion a best buy for 139. caught a 25 inch brown in smithgall on it today so i cant imagine a much better deal for a good casting and tough rod

[deltaflyer]

Based on your budget I'd revise my recommendation and agree with Michael (TEE). I have a 2wt. and 4 wt. TFO Professional and a 6 wt. TICr . All have lifetime warrantys and are terrific rods.

[mike@jb]

I am very happy my 3-wt. Series 1 rod. It's their low-end two-piece, but it casts well.

[GonetoSeed]

Build one. The Old Man posted this deal at Hook and Hackle in the Rod Building forum:
http://www.mailordercentral.com/hookhack/prodinfo.asp?number=BB9054K

These blanks are close to your old mid-flex in action, maybe a tad faster.

$46, a shot glass for a thread spool holder, an Atlanta phone book for a thread tensioner, a beer flat with v's cut in the sides for a wrapping stand and a few nights of assemblying and wrapping (with any questions answered by fellow NGTOers) and you will have a rod that fishes like one in the upper end of you budget (most likely better). It may have a couple of cosmetic blemishes that only you will focus on, but after the first fish even those will disappear :)

After re-reading it's obvious that drinking has some rod building benefits :)

[Steve Hudson]

One heads-up on using the phone book as a tensioner...some of the inks used to print phone books will come off on the thread, and that's a situation which can cause problems in subsequent finishing, depending on the composition of the particular ink. If the ink is at all prone to smearing on the printed page, beware that some may get picked up by the thread. Whether it's a problem depends on the specific phone book, of course, but it's something to be aware of.

If you want to roll your own, it's very easy to build up a simple tensioner. I'll be glad to share details if you'd like. Or go whole-hog and build a wrapping stand with a tensioner built in. I build these to give to the folks in the rod classes at the Methodist church in Alpharetta, and they're very straightforward to put together (even for a power-tool-challenged person like me) and don't take but a little while to put together.

Steve

[GonetoSeed]

Good points Steve. I guess even the quality of phone books is declining.

I built my current stand with some scrap 1X2 and 1X4 left over from one on my wife's shelf projects, some felt from Michaels to protect blank in the V cut, 1/4X4 stove bolt, spring, washers, hex nut and wingnut. Total cost ~$3.

I think the good news is that you can be into hand-crafting rods without a big (actually a small) investment in equipment. Unless of course you are a tool addict :) It also is not time consuming if you decide to keep to the basics in aesthetics. I think it's very possible to complete a simple and classic looking rod (except for the finish drying time) in one of the Saturdays that you can't fish because the rivers are blown out.

[Josh Barnett]

Starting at the most expensive, and going down from there.

$500 Dollars and Up

Winston WT Trout Rods
Match with an Orvis BBS
Trout Line from SA with AST

Around $200 Dollars
Sage LAUNCH Series Rod
Match with an Evolution Reel
Trout Line from SA with AST

***BEST BANG FOR BUCK***

TFO "Temple Fork Outfitters"
Proffessional and/or TiCr

Joshua Barnett

[mmarkey]

OldDawg

Here's your chance to try something new!!

Why don't you try building your own rod, It's much easier than you think and you'll get a far better rod for half the price and a few hours of entertainment.
I wouldn't have said this six months ago but I just finished a kit that my wife got me for Christmas (you can see it on the rod building section) and I'm starting another already. As much fun as flytying, and not any tougher.

Seriously you can build a real fine $600 rod for $300 or less. And brand name blanks as well.

JMHO :)

[Trout8myfly]

OldDawg - I bought a 6-weight Trident TLS at an Orivs sale about 18 months ago. I broke the top section, sent in the rod and and Orvis sent back a new section, no charge, no questions asked.

Did they specifically tell you the warranty did not apply when you bought it? Just curious if this is new policy for future purchases at the sale.

[mmarkey]

Last Orvis tent sale I went to all the sale rods had Stamps and brands burned into the cork showing they were from the tent sale.

[Tentwing]

Bob M had a good suggestion. The Cabela's PT series is a really good rod , and they have a 25 year warranty. Oh,... and they are made by Sage for Cabelas. Being the Sage fan that I am thats icing on the cake. :)

[OldDawg]

Thanks for everyone's input.

Does anyone own or cast a Sage DS2? What are your comments on this rod?

[pschlemm]

I've got a 4 weight, 7.5 ft DS2. I've only used it once, but seemed to be a pretty good rod for throwing weighted nymphs and drys.

[OldDawg]

The rods were unwarranted at the last couple tent sales.

They were warranted at the first tent sale I attended.

[The Ole Man]

ODawg--the DS2's are nice rods. Their actions vary widely depending on the length and line weight tho. Prob want to drive one first before you buy. Course the new Sage "Launch" can be had for about the same price as a discontinued DS2. I haven't cast the Launch, but some folks at highcountryoutfitters.com gave them good reviews and one of their local shops had already sold out of them. Again--better try first.

[Josh Barnett]

Joshes Favorite Fly Rods for 2005


Here are some other choices that I have test-cast and enjoyed.

Winston Boron II Rod About $600
Ultra-Fast Action Rod by Winston Rod Builders
These rods are designed, and made of a high modulus boron/graphite composite to ensure a light weight, fast action, full out fly rod.

Winston WT Trout Rod About $600
"Classic" Winston Action by Winston Rod Builders
I own one of these myself. Was my first Winston fly rod ever. Casts somewhere between slow-medium, and can handle anything from dries to buggers.

Sage TCR (Techincal Casting Rod) About $700 +
Fast-Action Rod by SAGE Rod Company
Designed to "see just how far fast action, high line speed rods could go without losing their 'fishability'"

Sage Launch Series Rod About $180 +
Fast-Action Rod by SAGE Rod Company
This is a new rod to the SAGE Family. I had the opportunity to toy with these new rods at a fly shops several weeks ago. It is fast-actioned, and very affordable.

Thomas and Thomas Horizon II Rod About $630 +
Medium-Fast-Action Rod by T&T Rod Builders
These improved rods use BAFT (Bi-Angular Fiber Technology). This old favorite has a new increased strength and performance. Nice rod.

LL Bean's Double L (LL) Rod About $215 +
Medium-Fast-Action Rod by LL Bean Rod Builders
LL Bean's nicest fly rod for the fresh-water trout angler. This rod not only incorporates fancy stylings, but "ease casting".

Orvis T3 Rod About $500 +
Fast-Action Rod by the Orvis Company, Manchester
These rods are some of the finer casting rods on the market, but hold true with a high price tag. Some anglers who have used these are addicted, others weren't that impressed. Very differentiated emotions on this rod. Decide for yourself.

Bass Pro Shops Classic Rod About $150 +
Medium Action Rod by Bass Pro Shops "White River" Fly Shop
These rods are nice for the angler who fishes a lot. This is my father's go-to fly rod for local small streams. Nice stylings, and casting for under $200.

Pacbay Rod Prices Differ
Mike Popik built one of these rods, and I eventually became the owner after an NGTO Fling. Purchased it for under $100. I love the way it casts. If you're looking to build, you may want to look at Pacbay's "Blanks". Very affordable.

ROD BUILDER'S CONTACT INFO

RL Winston Fly Rod Company
http://winstonrods.com

SAGE Fly Fishing
http://www.sageflyfish.com

Thomas and Thomas Rod Builders
http://thomasandthomas.com

LL Bean
http://www.llbean.com

The Orvis Company
http://orvis.com

Bass Pro Shops
http://www.basspro.com

These are just a few of my favorites. I've casted dozens of fly rods, and there are several others that cast well. It's all depending on the caster. These fit my casting style well, but your's may be completely different. Head over to Unicoi Outfitters and try some of these rods out. They have a mix of high-line, and extremely affordable. Ask about a particular rod, or go in "just looking". You're sure to find someone in there who can help you. Tell them Josh sent you.

FLY SHOP CONTACT INFO

Unicoi Outfitters in Helen and Blue Ridge
http://www.unicoioutfitters.com

Joshua Barnett

[Jackster]

Joshua, not to be contrary but have you cast the BIIx from Winston? They are anything but ultra-fast. They do indeed get the line out but work EXTREMELY well close in too. This is the one aspect that separates them from every other rod out there today. As you lengthen your cast the boron kicks in, up until that time they use a lot of sweet, soft tip.
Truly amazing fishing poles!

[Josh Barnett]

Yes, I have cast the Boron IIx Rods.

In my opinion, they were an extremely fast-action rods. Considering that I fish in places that rarely widen over 20 feet, my explanation of fast-actioned may be different than the opinion of someone more apt to fish in areas where a fast-action rod is always needed.

One thing to consider. When I look at actions on different fly rods, I typically go ahead and string out about 15 or 20 feet of line. At that point I will make several casts, see how far I can get the line to flow out, and then choose what weight I consider it to be. Making short casts cannot tell you what action it is.

Nevertheless, yes I have cast it and find it to be a very fast action rod. If you haven't cast it at around 60-80 feet you couldn't truly realize what I mean. Get out there and cast it at long distances, with d-haul and see what happens.

Then again, you may still think it's not ultra-fast. It's all in the caster. ;)

Joshua Barnett

[Jackster]

That's a good way to test them, Joshua. When I got my first BIIx over a year ago the first thing I did was cast it in the 15-20' range. The tip felt alive and I could feel the rod load. No way this will cast a long line I thought as the whole GPX went flying across the road with just a couple hauls. It is fast but it is has the softness to handle the 'up close and personal' range. Perfect small stream rod? Nope, not in my book. I reckon I'll keep my 'G's and my trusty IM-6. But as a go-to when you don't know what to expect it's a darn nice rod.
I can't think of another rod series out there that handles such a range so nicely.
If you want a real 'ultra-fast' green stick, try the XTR.

[Josh Barnett]

Like I said earlier, it all has to do with the caster.

I agree, the Boron IIx Rods are definately not a small stream rod. They have been well crafted to serve anglers fishing medium to large rivers, and lakes.

Like you said, not only do they own the ability to cast in smaller (not tiny) areas, but in large areas as well. These rods will cast everything from dries to large saltwater flies. Yes, I still think they're an ultra fast fly rod. But, I will recognize the facts that they're well rounded. Not many ultra fast rods, in my opinion, can do it all. Unlike their predecesors, the Boron IIx rods can, and with an experienced caster will.

Joshua Barnett

[GonetoSeed]

Josh - the following will probably be interpreted as nit-picking. Nit-picking because your recommendation to try lots of rods to match casting style and distance most often fished is correct. But, you write posts with a certain air of authority that could be interpreted as being technically correct. In this case, you are not. This means that there is the possibility that your reasoning could be incorrectly applied in certain other situations.

"When I look at actions on different fly rods, I typically go ahead and string out about 15 or 20 feet of line. At that point I will make several casts, see how far I can get the line to flow out, and then choose what weight I consider it to be. Making short casts cannot tell you what action it is."

What you are measuring is the power of the rod, not the action. The 'action' of a rod can not be changed by the caster. It is an inherent attribute of the rod's design and is determined by the taper: the distribution of power through the length of the rod blank. Two rods with exactly the same average power can have very different actions. Action - the specifc shape of the curve in the blank is always the same as a load is progressively applied (weight is increased).

The traditional way of describing action is to describe the bend of the rod under intial load. Initial load being used because it is a close approximation to the loading a blank needs to effectively tranfer the energy to the line for an "average" cast. The traditional descriptions of bend being: upper 1/3 = "fast", upper 1/2 = "moderate", into the butt = "slow". These descriptions are obviously subjective, but important. They reflect how much the caster can control the tip and therefore loop size at the average fishing distance the designer has in mind for this rod (target market) - maybe 20' here in the SE or 60' out West. And, also how the rod reacts to other intial loading like setting a hook and therefore protecting a tippet.

Because these are subjective, "traditional" measurements, they do not always keep up with changes in material and design (one reason Orvis introduced their own, more gradular measurements). I think this is the case in the Boron IIx, Sage TCR and others. The recent increase in material modulus makes it possible to carry power further up a blank without adding unduely to the weight. One result is this makes it practical to build an ultra-fast taper. For lack of a better definition: the upper 1/4 (or less) bends under initial load.

As you point out, the first marketed (hyped) benefit of this design was that it makes the rod a "casting rocket". The action has something to do with rocket (possible tighter loops), but the major reason they are rockets is power. These rods have the diameter, lightness and feel of what we used to "think" of as a 5wt, but actually have the inherent power averaged through the entire taper of what we used to know as a 7wt (or even 8wt). As a result, since there is no standard for rating rods, manufactures could market these more powerful rods and rate them at low AFTMA line ratings. They could carry 80'+ of 5wt line past the tip top (which is about 30' of 8wt). These rods looked really good in casting competitions and magazine reviews.

Unfortuantly, they can be real dogs at normal fishing distances. Between 20' to 45', they are underlined if using the line rating on the label. It is not their "action", its that the require more weight to load. This is why uplining on on "fast action" rods can help solve casting problems (and disallusionment with the rod).

There is something else about these rods that can be important in the purchasing decision and that Jackster points out. What some anglers are discovering is that these ultra-fast rods are like multiple rods in one. If you think of the just the first 7' of one of these rods, the shape of the bend under initial load is about 1/3 of the 7' (rather than 1/4 of the entire 9') - the effect is like having a 7' mod/fast action rod inside the 9' ultra-fast rod. With some slight adjustments in stroke, this rod-inside-a-rod can be casted as a small stream rod with the advantages of a lower power rating and slower action, particularly it is possible to load it with a few feet of a lower weight line. A 9' 6wt may have a 7' 3wt inside it. For some anglers it will also have the advantages of a slower action.

The end result is as Jackster points out a lot of versatility. These ultra-fast rods can cast a wider range of lines than the traditional 3 line rule-of-thumb for most "traditional rods". In fact, some custom builders are building mutiple butt sections (seats and grips) for multiple piece rods to get actual multiple rods out of different combinations of blank sections.

Does this make them better? As you point out, it depends. It does make them more versatile, but "one-size fits more" is not something always valued by anglers.

So after a lot of nit-picking, we arrive at the same point. An angler should not buy a rod without trying multiple line weights at the distances that the angler most often fishes.

[Josh Barnett]

My turn to nit-pick your post.

Starting from the top. Whether or not I show an "air of authority" or not, that's not really important. I'm just sharing my thoughts, views, and opinions about these rods. If it comes off that way, I apologize. However, just like everyone else here I try to give what I can. If my writing style paints an egotistical picture in your mind, I can't help that. The same could be said about your prior post. Maybe you should read your post from my point of view. Nuff Said.

Actually, in my opinion, the action of a fly rod is changed very much so by each caster. My casting style may limit the 'action' of said fly rods to be lesser of what yours may be, because of the simple fact that you apply more 'power'. Actions on fly rods, given by anyone (including manufacturers) is one person's opinions, possibly more sharing one thought. Same with you and I. My interpretation of said rod's 'action' is not neccesarily going to be the same as yours.

As an example, one Winston dealer noted the Winston WT 4 Weight Rod as a fast action fly rod, compared to my own views that seems ridiculous. I have found the WT rods to be a slow-medium action rod, more along the medium/moderate side. Goes to show that opinions differentiate between two seperate casting individuals.

I see where you may think that the question in hand is power, but what we're really looking at is to see what action this rod has, and how that action will inturn affect the caster. Not only that, but we're looking at what 'action' rod the caster is searching for, and how each of the rods that have been presented suit that person's style, or desire for casting rod. Power is also a vulnerable subject, being changed by each caster. Not only do I have differing opinions on 'actions', but like I said earlier, you or I may apply more or less power than each other, therefore a rod may 'cast' differently in my hands than yours.

As far as the Boron IIx Rod goes, I stick with my initial comments. This rod, in my opinion, is a very fast-action rod. Again, going with my first and second commentary, it can cast in small and large water, equally as succesful in both situations. These views are based on my casting of the rod, and may be different than those of someone casting this rod more or less often. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE CASTER.

Open to any comments, rebuttals, or replys.

Joshua Barnett

[Jackster]

One question: if the BIIx is, as you said in your other post, 'ultra-fast', how would you rate the XTR?

[GonetoSeed]

There are three core attributes of a blank that can be measured. They are not matters of opinion. They are:
- Power: Used to describe a rod or blank's stiffness or resistance to bending. The higher the stiffness/resistance the more powerful, the more energy that can be transfered to the line which means the heavier the line can be carried outside the tip top (weight in grains for the distance of the line). The less stiffness/resistance the lighter the weight of the line. When someone is refers to an "X" weight rod, they are referring to its power.
- Action: Where most of the initial flex in a rod blank takes place (1/3, 1/2, full). It is a constant defined by the taper of the blank. Taper is the distribution of power (stiffness) along the blank. A blank, such as the IIX, that has a lot of stiffness up to close to the tip and then a "soft" tip has a fast action.
- Speed (Dampening): Describes how long a rod takes to return to straight or stop, after being cast or flexed (a "crisp" blanks stops quickly, a noodle keeps on going and going). Higher modulus rods tend to have higher dampening speeds.

These are all used in a unique combination by the designer to get the end result he/she desires in the rod. The classic Winston feel, of which I too am a fan, is a classic example of a unique recipe for all three attributes.

You are always free to express you opinion of how these attributes combine into the performance of a rod, especially for a set of given conditions or techniques. Because an angler considering the rod does in fact have to match combined attributes and resulting end result to his/her casting style because the caster's style can not change them. Trying to will only frustrate the angler unless in fact they are trying to change for a specific purpose. For example, I prefer a moderate action (bends in the upper 1/2), lower power (<4wt), slow dampening rods (IM6 or even e-glass) for trout fishing. My bass/SW rods are higher power (>6wt), fast action (upper 1/3), fast dampening (high modulus). When on the water, I adjust my mechanics accordingly to get the most perfromance (and enjoyment) out of each design.

btw, I did re-read my post from your perspective. Actually a couple of times before posting. I realized that it would likely be interpreted as equally egotistical as yours. But, when you start a thread with "Joshes Favorite Fly Rods for 2005", it did strike me as it was to be read as a well researched, published and relevant critique of rods. Which also means that the basic premises for rating the rods as favorites should be correct, if the opinions are to be relevant. In one regard you are correct. The IIX is a fast action rod. However, it is a fast action rod in every caster's hand. No matter what they do, they can not change the shape the blank assumes as it is loaded, this a function of power to length. They can not change the power, the stiffness is a factor of the material modulus, tube diameter, wall thickness, etc. The dampening speed of the graphite/boron is what it is.

What they can do is exploit these attributes to their advantage in terms of distance, sensitivity, accuracy and enjoy the heck out of this rod, if it matches up with their preferred casting style.

[Josh Barnett]

One question: if the BIIx is, as you said in your other post, 'ultra-fast', how would you rate the XTR?

Wouldn't know, haven't cast one as of yet.

GonetoSeed--

On the contrary, I think every attribute of a rod, excluding the internal factors, is determined by how a caster casts. If I apply minimal power to my fly rod, whether or not it's a fast or slow action rod, I will get poor results, because I am applying minimal power. The power and action of a rod are two 'external' attributes, that aren't embedded in a fly rod. What you have confirmed to be the action of one rod, may be different than mine because we have different casting styles.

Because someone has come up with methods to determine whether or not a rod has this or that action doesn't mean that the action they say the rod has is what you or I will find it to be. That said, I don't have the time to write pages of notes and comments about your last post.

Open to any comments, rebuttals, or reply.

Joshua Barnett

[GonetoSeed]

The purpose of my post was to provide you with the industry accepted definitions of three physical characteristics of rods, and specifically action. It was not to cover casting (the physics of casting) which of course is the primary determinant of if a cast achieves what the caster wants to achieve. The physics of the cast act on these physical characteristics - "internal factors" - and they can not be excluded because they are constants. During the cast, you are making minute (or perhaps major) adjustments that apply to these specific physical characteristics and create the energy that moves the line and determines other things like size of loop. Using your example, if you do not apply enough force (acceleration of the rod and line mass) to sufficiently overcome the blank's inherent resistance to bend (defined as its power), you will not bend it sufficiently enough to store power to be transfered to the line and you will in fact get "poor results" (I'm assumming you mean in distance). Start or stop the acceleration during the stroke too early or too late - timing which depends to a significant degree on the shape of the bend (defined as action) while it is loading because this impacts the location of the tip - and you will not get the size loop you are seeking.

"Because someone has come up with methods to determine whether or not a rod has" The someone in the case I'm making is the industry. The reason they do this is to avoid the very problem in the remainder of your quote: "or that action doesn't mean that the action they say the rod has is what you or I will find it to be." They are doing this so that we the buyers can have a somewhat stable, relative way to attempt to consistently describe rods. If I ask for a moderate action rod, I'm asking for something specific (though not very granular). So going back to OldDawg's original question, he was asking about rods comparable to an Orvis Midflex (Orvis attempt along with the numbering scheme to provide more granularity). This is Orvis's term for a specific action. It means that the answers shouldn't be determined by our individual casting styles, but based rods that that have an intial bend into the mid section of the rod. IIX is not comparable. This doesn't make it either a good or bad choice, just measurably different and perhaps not applicable for OldDawgs intended use. Or, if he does want to switch to a faster action rod, he now knows how it compares to the Silver Label, at least on a relative basis.

[Josh Barnett]

The purpose of my original post addressed to everyone was not to answer a specific question to the postee, as that question had already been answered. I was simply giving out some other options. Hope OldDawg finds exactly what he's looking for. He now has much more knowledge on casting, because of this post, and can hopefully determine a rod that fits hit casting style.

Joshua Barnett

[Riverman]

Josh,
I`m looking at several modern maker`s,, AJ Thramer,Mike Brook`s,Jeff Hatton and Gary Lacey. I really like the 3rd. generation 7ft. 2 tip Aristorcat.What can you tell me about the action of this rod,slow,slow/medium,medium/fast,or fast action.I`m looking for just the right Small Stream rod.

[Glenn Scott]

Old Dawg,

If you haven't found a new rod yet, I can build you a custom rod for around $200. I'll check into the pricing of the Scott A2, which has a lifetime warranty...may be a little more than $200, but not much.

Glenn
g. maxwell fly rods

[Glenn Scott]

As I replied to Old Dawgs query about a new rod, I thought I'd browse the other posts. What fun! I've been fly fishing off and on for over 30 years, and have been building custom rods for a few. I've stumbled and fell in cricks in PA to the Sierras, Scandanavia to the Marshall Islands. Never broke a rod...lucky I guess.

Some comments on all the banter about what rod is best for an individual. I've thrown line from a lot of rods over the years, and frankly, I don't give a rats butt about a "label" that a manufacturer puts on a rod. "Ultra fast", "fast", "Med-fast"...I don't care what anyone says...it's all relative. I can pick up any rod and cast with it and catch fish. If you cannot do that, then you cannot fly fish. If you get too hung up on all the technical crapola floating around, you'll never have time to fish, or you will be constantly wondering if you hve the "perfect rod" to match your individual "talents", shall we say...it ain't gonna happen. Find a rod you can afford, and fish with it.

All the hoopla about the lifetime warranty stuff is funny too. If you all don't think that the manufacturer is getting his money up front, you are smoking something illegal. You are paying for that lifetime warranty in the exhorbitant upfront cost of that rod. And even when you do break a rod and send it in for the warranty, you will pay up to $30 for a processing fee, and then your shipping as well! Think about it!

The bottom line folks: You can catch as many fish with a Cabela's as you can with a Winston...and this may come as a real shock, but the fish don't know, and don't care. As the old fella said, "It ain't the tool sonny, it's the mechanic behind it."

Best regards,
Glenn "Mad Max" Scott

[chuckwagon]

Great post Glenn.
I have been cleaning out my garage this week making room for my new boat.
After looking over all my rods and making fun at all the money spent. I reach over and pull out my first bought fly rod. A 7ft 5wt Orvis Rocky Mtn. As soon as I pulled it outa the cloth and gripped the musty old cork. I realized one of the best trips I ever took out west. I fished the San Juan River in Northern New Mexico. In tow was the only rod I had at the Time. The 7ft 5wt. Man those hosses out there wore me out! That 7 footer did the job. I did get poked fun at a little in the parking lots. But, when it came time to set the hook the rod made little difference.
I neglect that rod now and am gonna make myself fish it more this year!

And now for my addition to the post. Go to the Hawk and try all the Scott Rods. They range from 200 and up. Being a Scott Rod junky I can't help but give a plug!

Good luck in your search. there are a lot of great rods out there!

[Josh Barnett]

Wish I could share some information on those rods for you Riverman, but I get the feeling you already know plenty more than I. ;)

Joshua Barnett


Josh,
I`m looking at several modern maker`s,, AJ Thramer,Mike Brook`s,Jeff Hatton and Gary Lacey. I really like the 3rd. generation 7ft. 2 tip Aristorcat.What can you tell me about the action of this rod,slow,slow/medium,medium/fast,or fast action.I`m looking for just the right Small Stream rod.

[BG]

OldDawg;

If you were happy with the mid-flex Orvis look for another one on eBay. They're fairly common and you'll just have to make your own decision on the price.

Other mid-flex rods you might want to check out while you're there; the Sage RP and RPL's, Winston IM-6's & WT's, Scott G-series, Sage LL's(although they can get a bit pricey, they're really sweet), Sage SP's and SPL's, and the DS2's. If you can find one, the T&T Paradigm is also a sweet rod, ditto their LPS. All these rods can be found at affordable prices, but you have to be persistent and don't get carried away when you're bidding. Set yourself a max you'll be willing to pay for a given rod and stick to it. If you don't get that one, there'll always be another. If you really need a 4-piece, you're limiting yourself in available selection, but you can find 2-piece rods at great prices.

I wouldn't recommend going for a fast rod unless that's really what you want. Most of the new ones are up there in price, but I honestly prefer the 2 and 3-piece actions in most of my rods. I recently bought a new XP 8'6 5wt in a 2-piece, after casting both versions I liked the 2-piece better than the 4-piece. If you want a fast rod, the XP's are great and they show up on eBay often. I have a couple Boron II's, but if I want a really fast stick, I go for the XP. The BII may be a fast rod by Winston standards, but overall I'd have to rate it a medium-fast+. Anyone that thinks it's ultra-fast should cast one of the Sage XPs', the TCR, Xi2's or any other salt rod. Don't get me wrong, I love mine and wouldn't swap them for the world, but "ultra-fast"? IDTS.... I cast a bunch of 7 weights not long ago looking for a light salt rod, including the BII, and it didn't even make the first cut. But if I was looking for a heavy trout or a bass rod, I'd own it now... I wound up with an Xi2, BTW.

Check out mrfc.com, they have some great closeouts going right now on some good sticks. Glenn makes some really nice rods at affordable prices, too.

It's all a matter of personal preference, you pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

If you want to try out some different rods, c'mon up to the Frostbite. I guarantee there'll be rods from everywhere and everywhen in every action, and you can cast till your arm's sore.

And I have to agree with Glenn, it ain't the rod it's the fisherman. Unfortunately, this fisherman ain't been fly fishing 30 years and he needs all the help he can get just to get the fly to the fish.

My $.02 worth,

Bill


P.S. Riverman, God's gonna get you someday and I just hope I'm a couple counties away when it happens.... :D

[Glenn Scott]

After all is said and done, the best way to find a rod for yourself is to cast a few. I'm not so sure that even if you like a Orvis mid-flex, or a Sage XP..or whatever, that after many years you can replace it. I'm thinking that many manufacturers tinker with their scrim and graphite/boron, titanium...whatever "mystery sauce" they use, and what is a mid-flex this year may end up being a tip-flex the next.

Where I live in Bonaire, Ga. there are no fly shops anywhere around. We have a club that meets in Macon once a month (Fall Line Fly Fishers), and we usually show up with new toys to fondle and drool over, do that's about the only way I get to check out new stuff. But like I said, it's relative...like a car. Need versus want. A Neon is quite sufficient transportation, but you may want a Hummer...just becasue you can afford it. But again, the fish could not care less...we fly fishers just like to have cool looking rods and reels...and there ain't a danged thing wrong with that!

I love Scott G-series rods, and I also like the old Sage SP, and Winston LTs. They all cast differently, and they are all expensive...which is why I build rods myself! That way I can play with many different rods and keep the ones I like and sell the rest! I'm building a nice little 2 pc 6'6" 2wt stealth rod for myself right now. It's a matte black blank, and gonna have all black hardware and black and dark gray thread wraps...don't want to spook the natives! If anyone wants to try to build a rod, I can get you a very inexpensive imported blank and inexpensive reel seat and cork, and you can build yourself a nice rod for less than $100...even a 4pc!
Glenn

[rickster]

OldDawg,

Did you find a rod yet?

How bout Unicoi, did you get a chance to check out the TFO?

rickster

[Jackster]

What are your recommendations for a replacement?

Consider going to one of the rod shows that pop up each spring. The Charlotte show is coming up this month. There is no better place to choose a rod than a show. All of the major players will be in Charlotte with an assortment of rods that cannot be matched anywhere. The beauty is that you can see, heft and cast them and, if your lucky, find a deal or sale on the rod that fits your requirements perfectly.

[OldDawg]

I have not bought a rod. I called Unicoi. They do not have Temple Fork rods, but had another rod that interested me. Of course I want to cast the rod before I buy. I did not get up to Unicoi last weekend because of the weather and honey do obligations. It will be at least two weeks before I can get up there. Your suggestion to wait on the fly show is a good one. I plan to attend the SWE.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Unicoi has also been very responsive to my calls and email.