Rod Building Kits

[flytier495]

I have been fly fishing for a few years now and last year started tying my own flies. Now, I am interested in learning to build my own rods. I have been looking on the internet, and there is so much out there, that I am getting a little confused. Can anyone help me figure out exactly what I will need to start this endevour? Of course, I know I will need a blank, handle, guides, and so on, but what about the tools. I spent a good bit of time on J. Stockard fly fishing web site looking at there tools and supplies, but I am just not really sure what I need. Thanks for any help.

Dave

[The Ole Man]

flytie--as far as tools, you need a wrapper of some kind. Some people build their own. Go to "Cabelas.com", "Flyfishing", "Rod Building" and Hookhack.com, "Rodbuilding" and look over their wrappers and tools. Beyond that, a razor blade, a thread burnisher (something round and smooth like a ballpoint pen will work), some cork reamers, some finish brushes, a guide spacing chart and a rod turner (and you can turn by hand if you have the time). There is a good tutorial on building your first rod at flyfisherman.com (www.flyfishing.about.com). Go to "rodbuilding". This is the info I used for building my first rod about 5 years ago--and I bought the rod kit from Bob Widgren the author of the tutorial. rodbuilding.org has a lot of info and I think flyanglersonline.com has a tutorial on building.

[fishnpreacher]

The hook an hackle catalog has a spacing chart, and also several kits. You can make a stand out of 1x6 wood and felt, and a tool kit (burnisher, bodkin and snips) was about 6 bucks, I think.
If you go with a kit vs. individual parts, make sure all the parts are sized to fit, that way you don't have to do a lot of reaming, filing, etc.

[mmarkey]

FT495.
I just started building my own rods. Let me give you some advice on what I would do different than I did the first time.

Some background, I bought a kit from H&H for my first rod. It was a Loomis GL3 3 Wt. and H&H provided a kit of parts to complete the rod. The parts kit normally was $30 bucks but with the deal I got it was free with the rod. The rod was $99 by the way. I was worried about screwing it up so I bought their cheapest blank to play on. That was $13. When the parts came I was underimpressed with the reel seat and the grip. After a long search I finally got a reel seat from Cabellas. A REC lightweight seat But that alone was $45 bucks. With different cork and of course I had to have gold Guides. The rod looks and casts beautiful. I'll match it with any factory rod made. You can see it in this forum.

Now the other rod, I never did practice on. Instead I used all the extra parts I had from the H& H kit and built it into a rod. I too looks great and casts well. but comapared to the GL3 it's not so great.

What I learned from all that is rod building is not difficult. Practice on a piece of dowel and get advice on this site on how to do things and what to use. Most importantly take your time and be careful. Don't do more than material and skill level will permit for. Wrap only a couple of guides at a time. Finish only 1 or 2 guides at at time and be VERY PATIENT. Slow and steady definetly wins this race.

Now, what I would do if I was to do it over again, I would buy the best blank I could afford and the nicest grip I could afford and really build the rod that I really want to use and enjoy. Or build a rod for a specific situation. Rod building is a blast but in reality how many fly rods can a body use?

Don't know if this will help you Just my own personal feelings.

[Windknot]

Dave,



I’m just a hobbyist rod builder, but I took my time before I started and determined exactly what I wanted that first rod for, and how I wanted it to look. I selected individual components and wound up with a rod I still enjoy looking at and fishing.



If you start with good quality components, have a reasonable ability to follow instructions, and the patience to walk away when you are having a bad day, the very worst you’ll wind up with is a rod that functions great, looks exactly like you wanted, and gets compliments. I sure had my share of cosmetic blemishes, but the only other person who’ll notice is an experienced rod builder.



I found Al Campbell’s multi-part instructions on FAOL to suit me best. It is linked at:

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/ (http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/)



Fair warning though….I don’t know anyone who’s built one rod and calls it quits!

Don

[flytier495]

I would like to take the opportunity to thank you all for your insite and help. Just F.Y.I., I have ordered an IM7 kit along with a rod building kit (tools, wrapper, turner, video). So, I should be giving rod building a shot this weekend, hopefully it will turn out good. Thanks again for your help.

-Dave

[GonetoSeed]

Congratulations on getting started. Ask any questions you might have as you plan each next step. Each step usually has a lot of options for technique, including the one on the video and ones that other builders have acquired along the way. I'm sure everyone here will be glad to pass along how they do the step and why. This will give you insight into additional tips/techniques. These "extra" perspectives of your options will help you feel comfortable (confident) that the approach you choose matches up with your style of working, available tools, etc.

I'm sure the rod will turn out great. I look forward to see a picture of the final and your post of the first fish caught on you very own one-of-a-kind rod.

[flytier495]

As I sit here waiting for my kit to arrive (yes I am really this impatient), I have a few questions. One of them is, being an avid golfer also, I know that you get the best performance out of graphite components when they are built correctly to their spine. Does this hold true with building my own rod? Is there any noticable difference if I dont build the rod with the proper spine location? Is there a way to locate the spine without some sort of component that I could purchase? Also, is there any suggestions you all might have in helping to ensure that the guides are lined up straight? Thanks for your help.

-Dave

[Ivan]

You probably have not had an opportunity to read the link Don provided above.
In it are a lot of answers to basic rod building questions and it should help with that cabin fever until you get your new toys. Here is a page from that link that should help you out.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/part7.html

What weight blank did you get?
What type of fishing do you plan for it?

Start looking for the components for your second rod.

Remember I said that!

[GonetoSeed]

It's generally accepted that the spine location relative to guide placement does effect one or more performance characteristics of the finished rod. Here's the link to rodubuilding.org FAQ with an explanation of placement choices and the most common way to locate the spine: http://www.rodbuilding.org/faq.html

On fly rods, I almost always place the spine on top. The exception being a few heavy duty SW rods.

I used the term generally accepted because there are builders whose perspective is that spine location does not noticeably enhance performance. They prefer to place the guides on the natural curve of the blank. All blanks, especially high modulus blanks, have a natural curve. It's an artifact of the manufacturing process. The question is how pronounced (noticeable) it is. Since the spine and natural curve do not align, if you place the guides with the spine on top and then hold the rod out in front of you, you may very well see the curve of the blank. It will look "crooked". This does not effect performance (unless of course the curve is so pronounced that the blank shouldn't have been used). But, it does have cosmetic implications, especially in a store when a potential buyer is looking, twitching, ogling, etc. Some the best known, high performance factory rods use the natural curve for this reason. The fact that they are highly rated for their performance is evidence for some builders that spine location is just not a big deal. imo, if it is or not is the builder's perogative. Some builders just like to know that they did everything possible to tweak the last bit of performance out of the blank, even if its just a couple of feet of extra casting distance. Examples in addition to spine location are using the smallest possible guides, but more of them than on factory rods, using ceramics versus snakes, etc. I think that when all these things are done, their impact in total is that the hand-built rod will perform very noticeably better than it's factory cousin.

[flyfisheraa573]

Has anyone heard anything good about the LL Bean rod kit? They have two to chose from, and 5 and 9 wt both 3 pieces. It sounds like a pretty good deal for only $59.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[GonetoSeed]

flyfisher - I have not personally used the LL Bean kit or an LL bean blank. Maybe someone who has will provide specific information. I am, however, a big fan of LL Bean products and their customer service and would think that this is also a quality product. IMO however, there is one special criteria when considering this or any other kit from a major manufacturer - have you casted and do you like the the factory model?

Kits from the large companies are typically packages of the same blank and components that are used in their production rods. If you like the production model then buying the kit and assembling it yourself will result in a rod that you like, with the bonus of saving a little money and personal asthetics like wrap colors. If you don't like the production model then these benefits are probably not worth the savings and effort.

If one of the reasons you are buying a kit is to insure that you have all the parts you need and they all fit, there is an alternative. It is to talk to one of the smaller suppliers and have them package an all inclusive kit just for your needs and specifications. This approach is especially helpful if you are building your own in order to get a rod that has specific characteristics for a type of fishing - conditions encountered, technique, etc - or size of rod and components (eg, smaller or larger grip) not available in factory rods.

These smaller companies are owned and run by experienced builders and anglers. If you think ahead of what you like and dislike about factory rods, they can talk you through the alternatives. They can help you through the confusion of reel seat numbering, guide sizes and numbering, tip top sizes, etc. They can help mix and match components from different manufacturers, for example, a Struble reel seat and Pac Bay guide sets. And, I think most importantly help you decide about changes to the rod versus the factory, e.g., using ceramics versus wire snakes. Often times, they will start with one of their pre-packaged kits and make substitutions for you. In the end, it may cost you a few dollars more, but you will end up with a rod that meets your needs and then the next (inevitiable) rod won't be a replacement, but another rod for the arsenal.

There are a number of guys who fit this category and I hate leaving one out and others might provide names that they have worked with. Personally, I have had great service from the Bobs at Hook & Hackle ( http://www.hookhack.com/ ) and Custom Tackle ( http://www.customtackle.com/ ) and David Edens at Blueridge Rods ( http://www.blue-ridge-rods.com/ ).

I have no business interest in any of these companies.

[flyfisheraa573]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

I have used an LL Bean rod before, but I may follow one of your suggestions instead.

-Jonathan

[flytier495]

Ok, I have received the kit and read the book that came with it as well as watched the video with my other kit. The only problem is the video was done around a spinning rod. I know the guides and tip top areas work the same way on fly rod as well as a spinning rod, but what about building up the handle/reel seat? Any insight, help, or website link would be of great help (and of course I live in middle ga, so our local barnes and nobles is completely useless).

-Dave

[flytier495]

also, the kit came with 4 rubber grommet looking things of various sizes. I have not read or seen anything that would tell me what these are or what they are used for. Does anyone know what these are or what they are used for????

-Dave

[Ivan]

[QUOTE=flytier495]Ok, I have received the kit and read the book that came with it as well as watched the video with my other kit. The only problem is the video was done around a spinning rod. I know the guides and tip top areas work the same way on fly rod as well as a spinning rod, but what about building up the handle/reel seat? Any insight, help, or website link would be of great help (and of course I live in middle ga, so our local barnes and nobles is completely useless).

Same link!
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/part7.html

[Chuck Morris]

The rubber grommet thingies are probably winding checks. They probably sent you several sizes to fit over your blank going down to the top of the grip. Pick the one that fits the best. BTW put the winding check on BEFORE you put on any guides.

Chuck

[flytier495]

Thanks again for all of the help. Now, i have another question. I have read online and from the book and video about how to start the wraps, but I am having some issues with it. Does anyone have any helpful hints that they have learned about how to start the thread wraps?

-Dave

[Chuck Morris]

I'm not sure what issues you are having. This is how I do my wraps. I place the guides on the blank using tape first, just to hold it, then I tie on the guide with elastic thread, remove the tape, align the guide. Mark the ends of the wrap on the blank. You must maintain tension on the thread throughout the wrapping process. Start the thread on the blank, after 3 or 4 wraps, straighten the wraps so that they are going straight around the blank and are on the starting mark ,cut the excess thread, burnish the thread end (the end that will be under the thread), this will prevent a "bump" when finished. Wrap towards the guide and up the guide "ramp". (I dress the feet prior to placing them on the blank to make a smooth transition from the blank up onto the guide foot) When the guide is securely held on the blank by the wrapping thread, cut the elastic thread. About 6 to 10 wraps before my end point I insert my tie off loop along side the edge of the foot nearest to me. When I tie off I pull the thread through the "tunnel" along side the foot and then pull it snug against the foot itself or over on to the top of the foot. This will help hide the end tag of thread. Burnish and then cut the excess thread. Singe off any stray "fuzzies" with an alcohol torch. Be very carefull when doing this last step. It's a lot easier to show the entire process than it is to explain, at least for me.

Chuck

[GonetoSeed]

I use a technique similiar to Chuck's, including using elastic thread (from the bead section of Michaels). Chuck's comments concerning thread tension is key. I had trouble keeping the tension tight enough on the first couple of wraps necessary to lock in the tag end of the thread. I would turn the blank and the tag end would slip and the wrap would loosen and not be locked down. A friend showed me a way to keep the tag end tight. I take a small piece of masking tape and tape the tag end just to the right of the guide. I wrap one long spiral of the thread from the tensioner around the blank, over the guide foot and up to where I want the wrap to start. Then I wrap the first turn of the wrap around the blank and back over the tag end. The tape is holding the tag end under the main wrap. I wrap a couple of times and then straighten like Chuck to make sure the first wrap is straight around the blank. I then wrap 4 to 6 wraps up the blank (and over the tag end). I remove the tape, pull the tag end tight and back toward the wrap turns and cut with a sharp razor. I use razors from a beauty supply shop that are used for hair thinning. I've found them to be extra sharp and pretty durable. One side of a double edged razor workd too. After cutting I burnish. I finish and tie off like Chuck. This is harder to explain than to show.

btw, the comment Chuck makes concerning prepping the guide feet is very important. It's the step I dislike the most and there have been times I got in a hurry and didn't make sure that the guide foot is tapered properly to form the ramp. I regret it everytime. If the guide foot is properly prepped. the thread will climb right up and there will be no gaps. If it's not properly prepped, then the fiddling with the wrap always takes longer than the time to prep the foot, especially if you have to remove the wrap, re-prep and re-wrap. I know this from experience :(

[Ivan]

I use technique Seed and Chuck mentioned. I have not used the elastic thread technique but will tonight. Thanks for the source. I am going to stop by Wally World on the way home to see if they have that elastic thread.

Also be carefull not to file too much off when your preparing your guides, that could lead to several problems. You want to take it down just enough to make a smooth transition from the blank to the guide.

[Chuck Morris]

When I prep the feet, I use a Dremel with a rubber polishing wheel. It takes the coating and metal down very smoothly. With a little practice it can be done quickly. You can also use it to smooth out any irregularities under the foot. Hope this helps to make things easier for someone.

[Ivan]

Chuck you are going to live a long time. I just turned my computer on to ask some questions about using a Dremel type tool. I just bought a dremel Knock off from Pep Boys and was wondering what to do with it. Got a lot of pieces with it but no clear instructions about each. You now know my concern about taking too much off. ( Don't have extra ceramics lying around). Your post is a "Big" help


Thanks.

[Ivan]

I need to know if there is some part that I can pick from a lowes or Home Depot that would work.

[Ivan]

I have a couple of pieces that came with this tool that are what seems like the wheels you discribed. Are they black? and have you used the grinding stones or belts on your guides.

[Windknot]

Ivan,

If the rubber pieces are cylindrcal, with a screw opposite the chuck, they are holders for the little .5" sandpaper belts. Just put one on and tighten the screw to hold it in place. I don't know they'd hold up to the polishing Chuck described.

I see I've got to browse a bit this weekend. Darn!

[Chuck Morris]

The polishing wheels that I use are the types used for dental work. I get mine from a friend who owns a dental lab. You might check around for a lab in your area and check with them about getting some. One wheel will last a long time, if properly used. These wheels come in different "grits" . Some of them cut quite quickly, while others cut more slowly but put a high shine on metal. You might also might want to check with your dentist. Make sure that you use the proper size collet with these shafts and that they are properly seated. Remember these things are turniing at about 30,000 rpm's at max speed. I'm not sure what the max recommended rpm's are for polishing wheels, but I do know what happens when one departs from the mandrel. I use a foot pedal control for my speed control. I used to work in the dental industry, so I'm probably more familiar with using this type of tool than the average person. You can also use the grinding stones to dress your feet. Use the finest grit you can and go slow.

[Ivan]

Thanks chuck. This thing is powerful. I used the cutting wheels to cut through a metal reel seat I wanted to replace. No problem! I paid $12 for the little rotary tool and it came with about fifty attachements. I can't regulate the speed on this tool so I will canabalize one of the broken rods I have and see how it works with the grinding attachment on a couple it's guides. When I get some time I will see if can locate the wheels you mentioned.

[FlyBy]

As far as razor blades, I like to use double edge blades used for razors. I snap them in half with a pair of pliers and then use masking tape to cover the broken edge. These blades are a lot sharper than the normal single edge blades and go further since you get two edges from each blade.

FlyBy

[Chuck Morris]

Here's a picture of the wheels i use. The one I use the most is the second from the left.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/sirrom/MVC-403S.jpg

[Chuck Morris]

FT495
We seem to have gotten away from you and your questions. So, let us know how it is going and if we've been any help. It seems that sometimes we go off on a tangent. My fault as much as anyone. But please feel free at any time to ask questions. It sometimes leads to an exchange of ideas, techniques, tools, materials, etc. that may be beneficial to all.

Chuck