New to this....

[stiritup56]

Ok, so I went to the Orvis sale today, and bought an Orvis reel. This is the problem, I dont have a rod to go with it, as they did not have anything under a 5wt left when I got there. I am looking at buying a TFO for it, but I am considering building my own rod. The rod I am looking at building is the Loomis GL3 4wt from Hook and Hackle, (it comes with a free building kit.) Anyways, I would appreciate some opinions on what I should do, keep in mind I have never biult a rod before...

[Ivan]

To steal a phrase from windknot!

It is not hard at all! First "relax" and take each step slow; repeat it if necessary the best of us do. I suggest that go through all of the steps in your instructions first before you begin your build. Ask questions here to get clarity.

There are a few here that have built that very kit.

What are you using for instruction? Book, video the web?

[stiritup56]

I dont have any instruction stuff, so I suppose that I would use the web and hopefully support from fellow NGTO members!! I have been tying flies for a few years, not sure it that helps or not.

[Ivan]

Well I'll start the ball rolling. Read this article on line.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/graphite/index.html

[Ivan]

Check this out also:

http://www.flyfisherman.com/rodbuilding/
I find this to be a better site. Print it out and read it again.

[mmarkey]

Building your own is definetly a ball. I just built a GL3 from H&H in January in 3wt. It's a real nice rod. I didn't use the kit that H&H sent with it. It just wasn't what I wanted for that rod. My additional componants cost me about another $80 bucks (REC seat & grip, and Gold coated guides) But it made a striking rod.

If you choose to build it, you won't regret it!

[stiritup56]

Mike - do you like your GL3? I may not do a GL3 because they dont have the size im looking for (3 wt, 7-8ft). They do have it in the IMX though :). Any thoughts on IM7 graphite??

Also - If anyone has details on how to build a wrapping stand with thread tensioner please post them! Thanks!!
-Tyler

[Chuck Morris]

Sriritup56

I live in Monroe and am in Athens quite often. Shoot me an e-mail and we can discuss getting together. I have all of Dale Clemens books on rod building and I have built my own wrapping stand. I have a fair amount of experience in rod building and would be more than happy to sit and talk to you and help in any way I can.

Chuck

[GUTHOOKED]

I'd recommend getting an instructional video with your kit from H&H. It will walk you through all the steps and give you a good idea of what needs to be done and when. Of course there's no substitute for direct instruction from a skilled teacher, so I'd definitely take Chuck up on his offer.

On a side note, I know the tendency for beginners is to go with a big name blank. That's fine, as Loomis, Sage, etc all make great blanks. Don't be afraid to try some of the less expensive blanks, though. I'd put H&H's house blanks (IM6 & XT51) and Rainshadow/Forecast blanks up against anything on the market.

[flytier495]

I have just finished building my first rod and I can tell ya that it is fun. One thing that I purchased was a rod building kit from cabelas. It had a rod wrapping, dryer, cork reamers, 3 piece tool kit, and an instructional video. The kit cost $100.00, but I personally think that it was worth the investment. I will be posting a picture of the rod I just finished under my other post in the next couple of days. I am dying to get out and throw it some, to see how it will act.

-Dave

[mmarkey]

stiritup56

My GL3 is a 6'6" 3 Wt with a lightweight seat and a cigar grip. I built it mainley for small streams and brim fishing. It's a real nice little Lightweight rod. Sorry no experience with IM7 rods.

[jgrb]

Glad I found this forum. I'm working on building my first rod as well. I got interested and encouraged by Ivan one Sunday while we were waiting for the water level to drop at Paces Mill. It's a forecast 8'6", 4wt, 4 piece. I bought the same building kit from Cabela's. The turning motor didn't have a chuck to hold the rod. Any suggestions on fabricating one? Here's a copy of my post from another forum:
Ivan,
It's going slowly due to the Saturday honey-do list, taxes and Sunday's at Paces Mill. I've found the spines on all sections - with your help and advice - and am now working on the handle section. I reamed the cork grip, taped the blank for fitting the reel seat portion so my next step this weekend will be gluing those onto the blank. I may have been a little too aggressive with the reamer since the cork grip split a little at the end. I think I can cover that with the winding check and epoxy. After that I plan to do the tip top which should take no more than a few mintues. I found out from one of the web sites you suggested that I should trim/file down a little off the end blank section so that all 4 sections will be the same length when you add the tip top. I ordered a building kit with a turning motor from Cabela's but it did not come with a chuck to hold the rod. The chuck costs more than the motor. I've been checking the web for a make shift device and found several sites that suggested using PVC pipe, plastic screws, rubber bands and rubber grommets. I'm trying to get everything ready so once I get going I can complete it on a rainy weekend. The video that came with the Forecast kit was helpful but somewhat confusing to me as a first timer, particularly as it related to the spines and placing the guides. I had more questions on the process after watching the video several times. Your advice helped me. I really appreciate your interest. Of course, you got me into this in the first place and the bug has bitten me. Thanks again,
John

[Glenn Scott]

When i first got into rod building, I had the same problem with the motor and finding a chuck for it. Here's is a very cheap and functional way to get the job done...I have been using this for a couple years.

Take one of the heavier plastic caps from a spray paint can, or something similar. Make a small hole in the top that will fit over the small fitting on the motor. Put a glop of epoxy on it to glue it in place. Then get yourself some solid packing foam, like they use to ship wine bottles, etc, TV sets, etc...cut yourself a piece of the styrofoam to fit into the chuck, and then cut a depression into the styrofoam to fit the rod butt. I have a couple of these to fit over fighting butts, etc. When you put the rod butt into the styrofoam in the chuck to dry, put a couple pieces of masking tape on the paint cap and the other end onto the reel seat to hold it in...then plug in your moter and let it dry.

Sounds really Rube Goldburg...but it works fine, and costs near nothing, and does not scratch your reel seats.

Glenn

[jgrb]

Thanks. Great suggestion and even cheaper than the PVC route. Won't cost me a dime since I have everything. Another question, do you file down the edge of the tip top a little so there'll be a smooth transition when you wrap it?

[GonetoSeed]

jgbr, I do not. I'd be a little concerned with it being too much like a knife edge. Unless the tip top is very mismatched to the rod, you should be able to use the finish to build the transition. Most often I just wrap up to the edge. Sometimes depending on the tip top, if it is already thin enough for the thread to climb, just a few turns up the tip top for a small amount of added security to hold the tip top.

btw, Technically no tip top wrapping is best. Any additional weight at the tip can hurt the dampening speed of the rod. Weight toward the tip hurts the performance exponentially. Obviously we're not talking about a lot of weight and most likely not noticeable. And because I personally do not think the rod looks finished without a tip top wrap that matches the guide wrap scheme, I always use one. I just keep it as small as possible and still match the wrap guide scheme.

[Ivan]

Glad to see that you got started. Heres another suggestion for the chuck. Instead of the paint can top. You can use a rubber butt cap from a medical walking stick or crutch. You can make some sort of bushing (tape strips of cloth,etc). When your reel seat is snug simply wrap the reel seat and butt with tape.

Ivan

[jgrb]

GONETOSEED, Thanks for the input on the tip-top. I noticed that my other rods have the tip top wrapped and there seems to be a fairly smooth transition between the blank and the tip-top and the 'coating' appears to be much lighter or thinner than what is on the guide wraps. That goes with what you are saying. Do I need to thin the coating with acetone for the tip-top? The kit I ordered came with a claimed "one-coat" system for the guide wraps so I assume that's pretty thick.
IVAN, Thanks for the suggestion on the chuck. I finished the handle and reel seat and the next step obviously is wrapping of the guides. I'm going to try a dowel first. I may have goofed on the handle section. I didn't realize the cap on the reel seat would take up so much space so that section of the rod is going to be a little longer- 1/8" or so - than two of the other sections. When I added the tip top I made that tip section blank the same length as the handle section. I guess I should have filed down the large end of the handle blank to make the sections equal lengths to compensate for the space taken up by the end cap.
It's a learning process and I appreciate y'alls help. From a beginner's standpoint, I would suggest to other beginners to get a book on rod building to go with the video. The video that came with the Forecast kit is lacking these kind of details. Not enough tape or time for a video, I guess. Or you can do like I'm doing. Use this forum and ask those board members with a lot of experience who are more than willing to share their knowledge. Those web sites you suggested are a great source, too.
Thanks again to all of you. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I continue. I'm in no rush. I might just write the book, "Rod Building for Dummies".
John

[GonetoSeed]

I personally think that you should not thin any finish. Their formulations have a very tight tolerance range and tinkering almost always has unintended consequences. Tinkering causes problems. Stick with exact measurements of the 2 parts and don't introduce anything else. If you are using a high-build finish (eg, Flexcoat Highbuild), just put on a thinner coat. As you work with it you will gain more experience with how much to use to get the depth you want in one coat.

In the meantime on these first projects, a way to get a thin coat is to put the finish on the entire wrap (tip top or guide) while turning (I hand turn), stop turning and let the rod sit in one position until the finish starts to sag on the bottom, and then remove the sag with your brush or spatula.

I think on early rods the biggest problem with finish is too much, not too little, especially on the first coat - it doesn't level, but footballs, it doesn't release bubbles, etc. It's a lot easier (just not instant gratification :) ), to put on a first thin coat and then come back and put on a second thin coat. Even using the HighBuild. Then when you get more feel for the finish and its leveling and bubble releasing characteristics you will be able to get the depth you want in one coat.

btw, I do not have Acetone in my shop. Acetone getting on just about any rod finish is bad news. The strongest solvent I use is denatured alchohol and I use it sparingly. I use Isopropyl (spelling?) most for cleaning up things.

ps btw, I think you are worrying a little too much about the length of the pieces. There are a lot of things that may ultimately add a fraction of an inch here or there (your reel seat cap for example). I'm not sure why the web-site said to cut the tip, disparate lengths that you are talking about don't hurt performance. I'm usually reluctant to cut either end of a blank, but especially the tip. It can be done and there are certain ways to do it, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk of splintering or stress crack just for the length of the tip top. Just my opinion.

[jgrb]

Well, I finally completed the wrapping last night. Now I have to decide on whether I want to go to the trouble of rewrapping some of the guides since the lengths of the wraps that go beyond the guides are not uniform. I used a business card with one edge cut to about 1/4" but I got carried away. I have a few "fuzzies" and thread ends that I tried burning off with a butane lighter, but stubs are left. I read where after applying the first coat of finish and it dries, you can file those down or trim them with a razor blade before you apply the second coat. After cutting into the wraps a few times when cutting the thread, I got a little cautious. I also added gold thread trim to all the guide wraps. The Forecast blank is blue as is the thread. Don't know if that's too garish or not. I guess the trout won't notice. I use a Y2K fly, so I guess I'm not a purist.
Based on the suggestions on this site, I did come up with a chuck using a spray can top and packing foam. It has a little wobble to it so I was wondering if a small wobble will cause problems with drying of the finish. I haven't glued the chuck together yet, so I will try to get the wobble out.
Also, when 'writing' on the rod with the gold colored pin that came with the Cabela's kit, do you cover that with something after it dries like spray shelac/varnish or wrap finish?
Any other suggestions, warnings and/or advice at this stage of the project will be appreciated.
Thanks again for your earlier help and advice.

John

[GonetoSeed]

The stubs can be cut of after the first coat of finish. One side of a double edged razor works great, it's sharp and flexible. On the next project there are couple of ways to eliminate the stubs altogether. One way is after you have pulled the tag end through, pull it tight and back to open a slight gap in the wrap where it is exiting, while holding it tight, place the edge of the razor against the tag end making sure it is flush on the wrap, pull the tag end against the razor rather then pushing the razor on the thread, it should cut and then snap under the wrap. The burnish the gap closed and the tag end should be completely under the wrap.

The other way is to start the pull-through loop a little sooner - around 10 wraps to go. Pull the tag end up to where it is just starting to go under the main wrap, them cut and finish pulling. It should end up completely under the wrap. Practice a few times to get the feel and to gain confidence.

The neat thing about building you own is using whatever color combinations you please.

I'd make sure that the wobble is gone and that your drying stand keeps the blank level. The finish is self-leveling, ie, will level to blank's placement in the holder. Don't ask how I know.

A good way to protect a gel pen inscription is to spray it with clear Krylon Artist Fixative (covering everything that you do not want the fixative to cover). Then put on a coat of finish. These long areas can be tough for me. My advice is to use a fresh batch of finish (you will waste some, but finish is cheap), put on multiple thin, thin coats & when applying, apply along the axis of the blank (length wise strokes).

[Korn Dunker]

I would redo the wraps that you are not happy with. A little extra time and care on this step will make for a finish you'll be happy with later. Thats why they put so much on the spool.

[jgrb]

Thanks, I needed the inspiration. If I don't, I would always look at the wraps and ask myself why I didn't I do it right when I had the chance.
John

[jgrb]

You offered some more great suggestions. I think I managed to get the wobble out by adjusting the foam inside the cap to center the holes I made in the foam and cap. Since I'm going to rewrap most of the guides, I will try your tips. One of the problems I found was that my exacto blade was not sharp enough. It was a new blade, but I changed it and the thread cutting improved. Too much so in some instances.

One of the guides was very close to the ferrule so I continued the wrap down to where the ferrule ended. That's the way they did on the TFO 4 piece rod I have that I'm using as a template. I guess that's the only way to handle this.

How long does it normally take for the gel pen ink to dry? I tested the pen and my 'writing' on the end of a reamer from the Cabela's kit that appears to be made of a rod blank. That was last night and the ink still wasn't dry when I checked it tonight. It rubs right off. It was in my basement which is cool.
Thanks again,
John