Experience with Winston Boron IIX

[LineSlinger]

Anybody out there got any experiences (good or bad) with the Boron IIX in a 4 or 5 weight for use around North Ga, Tennessee, and NC for trout?

[DAWGFISH]

I haven't bought one, but I have cast an 865 and a 904. They are really nice rods. They feature typical Winston top notch build quility. They are really good casting rods! It's true what you hear about them in that they cast equally well with a slow relaxed casting stroke as they do with a quick, fast action stroke. For faster action rods you can feel them load pretty well, though not as well as the LTX's they replaced. They have some give in the tip, so it seems they have a measure of tippet protection to them. They are also really light, even though a lot of that has to do with the wooven graphite real spacer that they use. You can order them with the traditional spacers with your choice of birds eye maple, walnut, or zebrawood. The rods are a little heavier with the wooden spacers, but personally I like the look of the wood bettter. If you really like faster action rods I think you will like these rods. They are still fast action rods though, so if you like medium fast and more progressive actions, they will still not be the cat's a$$. I like fast action rods in some situations(mainly in the salt), but at heart I'm still a traditional action guy. I heard all of the good things about these rods and decided to give them a try when I was looking for a new 4 weight dry fly rod. I was fully prepared to buy the Boron IIE 904, but I liked the Winston 894-5 LT a lot better for my taste and ended up buying the LT. It just depends on what you like. The best thing you could do is to go to the shop of your choice and try several different rods and see what you like. Just my dos pesos.

[RoyC]

I purchased a 9 foot 4 weight 4 piece about 3 months ago. I have fished it a half dozen times and it is a very nice rod. As stated above it is fast and as such it is not for everyone. It cast quite well both near and far. It is a cannon of a 4 weight when casting light streamers and dries and it is one of my two choices in a 4 weight for the Hiwassee (Big water) the other being a Sage SLT 904-4.

RoyC

[duane]

I just had a friend build me a custom one with the Fuji guides on it , used it for the first time on the South Holston a few weeks ago, 9ft 5 wt , and I will never again buy any other rod , it is the finest rod I have ever cast, good at both long and short distances, shoots like a cannon. The 8 1/2 ft 5wt production rod is also very nice, Jimmy Harris has one and I cast it at the FF show, just awesome!

Duane

[Jackster]

I actually have quite a bit of experience with these rods. I had to wait 6 weeks for my first the back-order was so great... and I was in line early!

I wish Winston would come up with some other name for the action. Fast rods are those like the Sage TCR, Loomis Max Linespeed, TFO TiCrX and the like. The BIIx throws a long line too, but not without feeling. When I got my first BIIx just after they came out (a 6 wt.) the first test was how it felt at 15-25'. The tip was alive at those ranges. That cannot be said for most other 'fast' rods. 'No way was this whimbly sucker would throw a long line' I said to myself as the whole line sailed across the street! Incredible!
The rod behaves extremely well at all ranges. You might give up a couple of feet at the max, but the life in that rod through that point makes it all worth while.
One simply cannot be appreciated the action and feel of this rod wiggling it in a fly shop. The Boron in it doesn't seem to kick in until quite a bit of line is out. When it DOES kick in though it is seamless and SMOOTH. Lace it up with a good line and have at it.
The 6 weight I have (with carbon fiber spacer) weighs the same as my Loomis GLX 5 weight! The workmanship is some of the best in the world. The guides are REC Recoils that can be bent right onto the blank without harming them (though the epoxy doesn't care for that abuse).
I cast the 10 weight at the rod show in Charlotte that made 'hero casts' almost too easy. I also cast the little 3 weight and expect that to be in my arsenal when that Lottery ticket hits.
I own the 9', 6 weight which ruined me. I ended up selling a few more roads to add the 5', 9 weight and 8' 6", 4 weights.

[deltaflyer]

now that I'm earning a paycheck again, I will have a one of these ... what weight is the only question... hmmmm... and do I order one with the nickle silver reel seat or the green whatever it is....

[The Ole Man]

I've seen this discussion on another Board, and it is really funny how some folks love the BIIx and others don't care for theml. At the moment, I fall in the latter class. At the last Fling, "BG" had his two BIIx rods in 4 and 5 weight and his 9', 5 wt Sage XP strung up and laid out on the table. RocketRoy had his targets laid out--so I began casting at one of them with "BG's" rods. The BIIx rods went first and I didn't like either one of them --and not at all what I would call "fast". When I picked up the XP and cast it, I said ahh, ahhhhh. It was the ticket for me. I don't own an XP yet, but I have two RPL+'s in 9', 4 wt and 6 wt that are personal favorites. Finding the best line for a rod is frequently the ticket. I also know that Jimmy Harris told me that he cast the BIIx in 9', 5 wt and didn't care for it---and that he then cast the BIIx in 8 1/2', 5 wt --and really liked it. Sooo--it's important to try before you buy and get a test drive with a good line or several good lines. I see this as one of the problems with test casting rods at shops---more often than not the line offered for the test is crap, simply because shop owners know that the line is just going to be eaten up on the lawn or concrete and don't want to dedicate much money to a good test line---thus ruining the test. Just imo.

[Jackster]

The Old Man, it's kinda like shoes, people can recommend but it is YOU who have to try 'em on!

[The Ole Man]

Yep--and everyone has a different stride. I said above "At the moment", because I might, for instance, cast some BIIx rods with different lines and have a totally diff opinion. Or--in the case of Duanes custom BIIx above, an expert custom rodmaker can take a factory blank and by meticulous spineing of the blank; by the number, size, type and placement of the guides, by the size wraps and finish thickness--- produce a fine tuned rod that will outperform the same mass produced factory model.

[dblhaul]

local rod builder in regards to building out a 4wt Boron XXII..I am gonna do it..I was casting a 7wt that he built..Felt like a 5wt..Geezus, it could shoot the line..I am having him use a cork seat and nickel, up-slide cap..I am stoked.

[DAWGFISH]

Sounds like some of y' all are having good results with this rod. Y' all are dead on about the line. I usually like to try several of my own lines on a rod I plan on purchasing, to see how it will act with the lines I use. Matching the right line to the rod is perhaps the most overlooked aspect of flyfishing. Lots of lines feel great when new, and not compared back to back with other lines. I often find that you have to cast them back to back to see what feels best for the rod. I did not use any of my lines when I cast the 904 or the 865. May be different lines would have made a difference.

I have a couple of the Winston LTX's that the Boron IIE basically replaced. For my personal taste, I liked the LTX action better. The LTX flexed deeper into the lower 1/3'rd of the blank, while still providing fast line speed. It felt much like the T&T paradigms, Winston LTs & WTs, Sage LLs, fiberglass rods, and Boo rods that I prefer to fish for trout with, but it generated faster linespeed. To me they were the perfect rods for folks who liked progressive, traditional actions, but wanted to have something a little faster for windier days.

Converesly one of the LTXs I own is a 907. This thing is great for large trout, steelhead, and bass. It throws a poper better than just about any rod I've tried with it's deep flexing action, but I wouldn't dream of catching a large striper, snook, redfish, or just about any other "hot" fish on it. It doesn't have enough backbone in the but of the rod to make me feel comfortable fighting some of the fish out there. But for fishing light tippets for trout and steelhead, the extra flex works great and protects tippet. Apparently Winston designed the LTX with the more traditional action in mind for trout and steelhead.

Most of the saltwater crowd I spoke with did not like the LTX at all for the above stated reasons. Winston designed the Boron IIE to address this. It has a much faster action and a much stiffer butt than the LTX and is more versatile. The Boron IIE is gaining a good rep in the salt world and with fast action fans. It's fast while still having some flex, but it ain't like the LTX. It's true it may not be a fast action rod in the since of a Loomis GLX, Sage XP, St Croix Legend Elite, etc, but to the more progressive action diciples out there, it will feel a lot closer to a Sage XP than it will a Winston WT. I kind of wish they would have kept the LTX in the freshwater sizes, while still offering the Boron IIE. More choices are always good.

That's just my personnal observations. I am not writing this to diagree with any of the above mentioned posts, I am just trying to give the perspective of that of the the more traditional action guy, and how it feels to them. I liked the LTX so much, I thought I would love the IIE, but I was surprised to find I did not. Of course all of that could change with the right line. It just goes to show how important casting before you buy really is in the rod selection process. You don't really know how something feels to you until you try it.

Steve

[LineSlinger]

Thanks to everybody for the advise. Will give the rods a try and let you know what I spend the green on :)

[Jimmy Harris]

I did purchase an 8'6" 5 wt. Boron and love it. I didn't get it because it was listed as a fast action rod. To me, only Winston could call this a fast action. I got it because it was a dream to cast at fishing distances and it's so light; feels like a 3 wt. in your hand. I was casting it for distance at the last NGTO Fling and just couldn't get enough out of it. Borrowed Bill's XP and immediately picked up an extra 15 feet on the first cast. How often do I need that trout fishing? Never! If you make a cast with all the line, you can't set the hook if a fish takes your fly so why be concerned with it. Most of you know I'm a big fan of Sage Light Lines. This Winston rod is actually easier to cast than the LL (I know, blasphemy!). The 9 footer was nice but don't know if I would have bought one. The 8 1/2' is a totally different animal.

[Pastor John]

Hi folks - long time no see!

I bought the Boron IIx a few weeks ago in 8.0ft 4wt for a trip to Cannon Falls where I thought the shorter rod with ample butt would be the ticket for the larger fish in that smallish stream. It was perfect! Although it is a 4wt rod, I strung it with one of the lighter 5wt lines, and the rod was amazing at short distances (20-30ft). I'm a recovering bamboo addict, and the IIx was one of my initial forays back into the graphite world. It has a wonderful tip section, one that I can feel at every cast; but at the same time, quite a bit of backbone for larger fish and slinging heavy nymph rigs. I'm really pleased with it.

Incidentally, don't miss an opportunity to book Cannon Falls! What an awesome stream. What awesome fish! Many thanks to Charlie and the folks at Unicoi for a very high quality fishing experience!

PJ

[BG]

I love my 8'6 5wt. BIIx, but I wouldn't consider it an "ultra-fast" rod. Not quite as fast as the XP, but a great "feel" and really light weight for a 5 wt. Faster than the WT/IM6 Winstons and the Sage LL/SP's, but not in the same class with the TCR's and Xi2's. Great rod to fish, though, definitely one of my favorites.

Mixed emotions about the 8' 4wt., though. Seems to lack a little backbone, but still amazingly light. I'd have to say I prefer the TMF for small water, and where else would you use an 8' 4wt.?

I've heard from others there's a pretty pronounced difference in the BII's going from the 3/4wt to the 5 wt's and up. I'd have to agree, although my experience is limited. As I said, I love my 5 wt., and the 6 wt. I've cast was really sweet.

Jimmy, I have to agree with you about the BII's vs. the LL's, but my 893 LL Classic is still the sweetest rod I've ever picked up! It's in my will, I'm gonna be buried with that rod.......

Bill

[Jackster]

This is good! BG, my sentiments exactly! I have a 8'5", 4 wt. BIIx that I really enjoy but that TMF... it's magical!
My counter to the Sage LL is a sweetheart of a 6'10", 3 weight Scott 'G'. One great small stream rod!
Though the 4 wt. and the 6 wt. BIIx rocks my boat, I think my 5 wt. will be up for grabs in the near future. Though a good rod for fishing, the 9', 5 wt. is the standard size rod used in competitions. The BIIx seems to do extremely well in the close to mid ranges but needs just a tad more starch for distance casting.

I'm in deep do-do if I ever get layed-off!

[TheEndlessEnigma]

but almost too buttery for me ..... i know that sounds kind of crazy but maybe if i actually got out and fished one i might be able to appreciate them more. about the line selection for the rod .... until recently didn't think it was THAT big a deal but it really is. on my powell lga 9' 5 weight i switched from a SA mastery series line and went to the royal wulff traingle taper and the difference was noticable in the first cast. easier to cast ..... and the line shoots 10-15 feet farther than the other line. on a different rod i did the same thing but had totally different results. amazing how things like this work out. i am somewhat surprised though that rodmakers do not recommend a certain line for their products cause i know they test them (at least i hope they do). so the process is somewhat maddeningly long to find the right line rod reel combo. also it would be nice of more shops had lines on reels that you could test on a rod you are buying to see the characteristics of what each line does with each rod and you could easily make a more accurate and complete decision.

[BG]

Jackster, haven't laid hands on a G (yet). Been sorta afraid to, gonna have to work harder to add another brand to the collection, and the Good Lord only put so many hours in the day and I'm pushing that hard already....

Maybe I'll have my TMF laid on top of the casket.... :D

Bill

[JD]

Although I am far from an experienced or talented caster, I loved the 9' 5wt Winston. Great, smooth feel. I agree the with the posts that the action is not fast. For example, it is not close to the action of the Sage XP. It seems to be more medium fast.
The one problem I had with the rod is the size of the handle-too small. I don't have extremely large hands but the size of the handle made me feel that I couldn't really grip it, had to handle it delicately. (You can order one with a larger handle)

[ccardwell]

Who is the local builder? He may have two orders.

[Rusty Fowler]

Hogwash! Sometimes you can't get that close to the fish on a tailwater without spooking them (the Clinch for instance..it's like a spring creek with all the flat clear water.) If you get too close you will put the fish down. Sometimes a 90-110ft drift is necessary to fool these wiser fish. It can be done/learned, you just have to get out and do it!

[Fire Walker]

Long distance presentation is key on alot of water here in the South. It CAN be learned. Keep those loops tight!Luke

[Ivan]

Luke my Brother from a cast far far away! Please elaborate on the techniques you've found effective for setting on those long casts and how do you deal with all of those cross currents on the Hooch?



Your boy!

Ivan

[JD]

There may be some custom builders who will place a larger hangle on the Winston, but I know the factory will put a larger handle on (although watch out for them charging you extra for it-that rod costs enough without any extra charges).

[dblhaul]

Who is the local builder? He may have two orders.


E-mail me for details CC...Getcha' some of the Belaveine? Thanks again. Ny treat next time.

[The Ole Man]

BTW---if you have a $1000 laying around somewhere, you can join TU as a Life Member and they will send you a Winston BIIx 8 1/2', 5 wt, and an Orvis Battenkill 5/6 reel (retail value around $693). Life Membership ends up around $300 or so---and you can get $60+ for the reel on ebay). Just FYI---TU.org.

[JD]

I had my first on river experience with the Boron IIx. I was really impressed. When I needed a short, delicate cast, I would get it. When I needed an extra 15 feet on a long cast, I would get it. And the rod gave both with an amazing feel. My previous go-to rod was a Sage VPS (which is a very good rod), but this Winston surpasses it hands down. Fantastic rod!

[fishnut]

I agree with Ole Man. I cast the Boron rods and didn’t really like the feel. More moderate action to me. One thing is for sure they are the lightest feeling rods I’ve ever held. I opted for the Streamdance High Line Speed. I could feel it load a lot better, and I felt I could control the rod better. But that’s just me, and like stated earlier, I could change my opinion with time. ;)