Questions about feather inlays.

[mmarkey]

I tried dipping the feather in CP as someone mentioned to do. That just seemed to gunk up the feather to the point that I couldn't separate the fibers.

I tried putting Hi build Flex coat on a thread base and placed feathers in it wet and that just seemed to float the feather and creat a lot of bubbles. I have a set of low build on order. That may work better.

The most satisfactory meathod I came up with was to coat right on the rod (I'm testing on an arrow) and let it set up till very tacky then place the dry feather into the flex coat. Of course after this is hard then I'll give it a nice finish coat.

That's what I've done so far. Can anyone who is proficient at this discribe the steps you use to achive a beautiful results? And do you inlay them over a thread wrap or right on the rod?

I appreciate any help with this.

[jtysone]

Did you thin your CP? I just did a inlay for the first time last week. Heres what i did. Mixed CP and iso. Alcohol about 60% Cp and 40%alcohol in a old measuring spoon. Dipped the feather in the CP and layed it on the blank. I then used a brush to get the feathers where i wanted it. Once in place i used a papertowel to wipe any cp around the feather off the blank. Then i just let i dry. That was my first one, ill post a pic soon. Hope this helps. Josh

[GonetoSeed]

If I'm using an underwrap and I do not want it to darken and go translucent, I coat the underwrap with a flood coat of full strength CP or 10% dilluted if I think the out-of-bottle CP is too thick (Gudebrod 811) and let it completely dry. Then I mix a batch of thinned CP (same formula as jtysone) and apply a wet coat to the underwrap. I touch the end of a bobkin into the thinned CP and use it to pick up the prepped feather. I don't dip the feather directly into the CP. This helps keep from gunking up the feather, especially a high quality dry fly hackle for example (I've found that the more webby the feather, the easier it is to inlay).

I lay the feather lightly into the thinned wet CP in the place I want it to rest. It should be very slightly floating so that I can use a bobkin or brush to arrange any errant barbules. I let this completely dry and then coat the feather and underwrap with another coat of full strength CP (or 10% dilluted) and let completely dry. I've found that this approach helps keep the feather from darkening and forces air out of the underwrap and feather before appling the finish coats. Note the plural. When I apply the finish I use multiple very thin coats, even if I'm using high-build. imo, too thick finish causes a lot of problems, especially until you get a feel for the finish viscosity.

I almost always inlay over a CPed underwrap. I like the contrast. It's hard to keep a lot of the types of feathers from darkening. On the occasions when I want the feather on a non-CPed underwrap (I want the wrap dark and translucent), I apply a very, very thin coat of finish. I actually apply, let it sit without turning and remove the sag on the bottom. This seals the thread and lets bubbles escape. If I intend for the feather to go directly on the blank, I apply a thin layer of finish to the area of the blank that will hold the feather and let it dry completely. In either case, then depending on the look I want for the feather, I may apply it with CP and coat it with CP as above, if I want it bright. Or apply another thin layer and float the feather in it, if I want the feather to darken. This all of course depends on the feather type, so practicing until you know which look you want is a great idea.

[mmarkey]

It sounds like I need to get a different brand of CP. Right now I have Flex Coat CP which looks as though it my b some sort of acrylic medium. It looks milky. I also have a jar of Cabelas CP which is clear but smells like lacquer although it is somewhat thick. Is this the same/similar to the Guedebrod 811 CP. I never really used either one I like the look of the wraps when they go transparent.
I also have High gloss head cement (another lacquer) are any of these acceptable substitutes?

[GonetoSeed]

From rodbuilding.org's glossary. Color Preserver:
A type of sealer/filler normally used on regular nylon thread to keep the thread from turning translucent when the final wrap finish is applied. Types include nitrocellulose lacquer (clear), acrylic (white), and urethane/acrylic (cloudy).

Flexcoat is acrylic. Gudebrod 811 is urethane/acrylic. Cabelas is lacquer. And, there are other brands of the different types marketed as CP as well. Some builders also use types of lacquers sold for other finishing purposes, for example, Varathane Diamond. All have their fans. Although I've never heard of anyone using head cement. Personally, I have had the most consistent results with Gudebrod 811 so that is what I use exclusively. As discussed in other posts, imo, success has a lot to do with picking one technique and product, practicing to understand the nuances and until you master it and then sticking with it. Another advantage of Gudebrod is the Fish Hawk carries it so it's convenient for me when I run out.

[GUTHOOKED]

Mike - Get the Gudebrod 811. As far as I know, this is the only CP that thins well with alcohol. This is what I use, thinned as jtysone describes. If you want to put your inlay over a thread wrap, coat the wrap with CP or epoxy first, depending on the look you want (CP/no CP).

[mmarkey]

Ordered a bottle of Gutebrod 811 from Fishhawk this morning. Hope to have it by the weekend. I'll give it a try.

Did some more experimenting last night. The Cabelas CP will thin nicely with
WOOD ALCOHOL Tried it with lacquer thinner it got lumpy. Tried it with Isopropyl Alcohol It turned cloudy and lumpy. Isopropyl is not pure alch. It is partly water, the bottle says 60% Iso. Do they sell that stuff in full strength? Wood alcohol Did a real nice job and dries very very fast.

[mmarkey]

I got my Gutebrod 811 in the mail yesterday Great service from Fish Hawk. I only ordered the stuff tuesday. (1 day turnaround)

Did a bunch more testing. The 811 is really nice stuff. Did a test coat on one of the feather sections I did with flex coat high build. I came out really well with the exception of a few tiny tiny bubbles. I'm going to do another test coat with Flex Coat Lite (2 coats) and see which one I like the best.

I'll be ready to go to the rod by the weekend.

[GonetoSeed]

It's hard to get all the bubbles out when dealing with feathers and finish. If you are not already, when using Flex Coat, try heating the finish - a little. Hold a Bic to the side 3 or 4 inches away from the finish. Rotate the blank and pass the lighter quickly back and forth 3 or 4 times. What should happen is the surface should thin and the bubbles expand and escape. Don't over do it. It's possible to literally boil the finish, and boy does that cause bubbles. Don't ask how I know.

[mmarkey]

Arranged and attached my feather COMPOSITION to my rod last night. I was very pleased with the way it looks so far. I also found out that after the gudebrod 811 starts to set up you can repositon individual hairs and even whole feathers very slightly just by brushing a little alcohol and gently coaxing the feathers with much better accuracy than right when you place them. The whole feather doesn't tend to move around as much.

Start the finish on that section tonight and maybe get the whole thing done this weekend. :D

I'm thinking of not using feathers at the furrel alignment and going with a small gold dot instead.

I'll post pics when I finish.