Waters Creek

[aubreylc]

Anyone been to Waters Creek lately?

[Loopdawg]

That stream is closed right now.

[aubreylc]

I haven't heard much talk about it since the workday over the summer and was wondering how the trout did during the drought. Does anyone know?

[FlyFishGA]

I was there about 3 days before the season ended...I didn't go very far up in there, but there's a HUGE beaver dam just before the forks of the trail that had water backed up a good 150 to 200 yards and was almost dead still. I saw no trout of any size...I didn't even fish it...it was kinda discouraging...

[aubreylc]

Maybe we should start hunting for the beavers. Heck, we could even tie flies with their furs. The stream seems to have great potential when you walk up a couple of miles from the check-in station, but I have not seen a single fish. whats up with that?

[Windknot]

Two things to remember about Waters Creek & beavers.

1. Waters Creek is administered by both USFS & GA DNR. That's two government entities.
2. Beavers are native species. So are otters.

My point being, learn to live with them, 'cause they ain't gonna be displaced.

[aubreylc]

Guess i shoulld have given some indication of sarcasm other than that of the extreme nature of my solution.

haha!

[Windknot]

I didn't mean to sound like I was slamming. Waters Creek has had a couple major disasters. One being some highly-skilled poachers that came in from downstream. It took awhile to get Waters back up to speed. After that, a family of otters found the easy pickin's and digested all that hard stocking and feeding work.

The message board was not popular reading, if you were an otter. ;) But they moved on.

We likely won't be so lucky with the beavers. It would be easy to breach that dam......except for gub'mint regulations that forbid running a backhoe into the creek. Maybe the annual Grunt & Groan (Waters Creek restoration project) in September...........

[fishmonger]

There was a real bad tornado that tore it up back in the 90s too.

FM

[FlyFishGA]

there's feisty fish in there, but I've only once pulled one out that met the size limit...the others were much smaller. It's a very tough stream, and I really wish something could be done to get it back to its "pre-poacher" status...but its gonna take more than the annual "grump and groan" get-together...but I don't know what

[AM]

Why is it that Waters is a seasonal stream? I started fishing it back in the mid 80's before the poachers and otters and tornados. It sure was good back then. I would love to see it make a come back.

[nuggetlegs]

As for the beavers, you can make beaver deceivers that will lower the level of the retained water and you don't have to use a backhoe to install them. They're basically 6" PVC pipes shoved into the bottom of the dam that help to drain the water.

[Brooks]

Beaver hunting, huh? I'm not going to go there...

Beavers are extremely resilient, I've seen dams, while not quite the size of the one at Waters, breeched only to be rebuilt in a matter of days. It would take some work to get them out of there.

However, last time I was up there was on that work day and the only fish we saw were holding in that back water. Which makes sense b/c that was during the peak of the drought and it was the only area that had water! We caught a couple with San Juan worms and indicators basically fishing like you would with a cane pole and a bobber...not exactly what we came up there to do, but it did the trick.

I wasn't too impressed with the fishery and don't really plan to go back. That area is beautiful, though, and I hope the work that has been put into it begins to pay off. Wish I could have fished it in its hayday.

[Path_Less_Traveled]

Was up there in Sept and did not see any fish larger than 8/10"... and i could see everywhere in the stream, due to the drought.... imo, the drought has decimated the large trout in Waters.

Do some searches here and you'll find some discussion about making Water's year-around.

[bthays]

I would love to see Waters as a DH stream!

[TroutTackler]

Guys,

If you would like to see Waters become a year-round stream, the best way to help that happen is to write/call the DNR. When they make management decisions, they do factor in public demand. WE are their customers and they do a great job of serving us. Just let them know and you never know what may happen.

The only downsides I see to making Waters a year-round stream is that any spawning that may take place their could be disturbed by anglers (I know there are arguments and evidence showing that angling doesn't harm spawning). The other would be that Waters runs through the WMA where a lot of hunters frequent. So, keeping the creek closed during the bulk of deer season may be to effectively zone the area for different user groups.

[aubreylc]

whether Waters is a year round stream or not, something should be done to preserve it. there may be beaver dams and stuff closer to the check station, but if you walk up a ways, its shady and cool with deep holes. I cant understand why this is being overlooked?

[kentech]

I used to fish Waters back in it's heyday in the 80s. The poachers and tornado were in the 80s, not the 90s, so we're a long way down the road. The 90s added snow downed trees, hurricane lingerings, floods...anyway, back in the day Waters was truly unique so it got a lot of attention. There were no DH streams, no Smithgall or private trophy streams. Unless you knew someone who could put you on private water on the Soque, Hiwassee, etc, or you were willing to put in the effort to fish the secluded water of the Chatooga, Conasauga, Jacks, etc, Waters was the only place available to most people that provided an opportunity to fish for lunker trout in GA.

If nothing else Waters served to teach TU, DNR and USFS a lot about creating and maintaining a trophy fishery in terms of regulation, enforcement...and the undeniable force of nature. It was a great lab!

[rodandrifleman]

wher can I go with all this cold and let my kids catch some trout? spinning gear though. any info would be great.:)

[narcodog]

I too fished Water's back in the 80's and one reason that it did so well was because the of the area manger. Mr. Keys he kept the fish fed and the poachers run off. He did not hesitate to bust your behind if he caught you. He would hide in the woods and watch you fish until he was satisfied that you knew what the rules were. When he retired the Ranger that came after him had other interests and did not spend as much time managing the stream. Then the poachers came the tornado came etc. Now it is what it is.

[TheEndlessEnigma]

well now ... looks like we have some dilemmas here.

if a petition to make it year round were drawn up ... would you sign it or promote it? if so ill draw one up.

do most of you know that waters creek fish even though fed are wild? with very few exceptions the creek is completely natural in trout population. would making it year round affect the spawning? something to think about

DH STREAM????? see above statement!!!!!!!

if you wanna do more ... do more .... i can guarantee you that no rock throwing or turning or filling up the old cribs will be stopped. it is actually encouraged in most cases.
just dont do nutsy things.

lets seee some solutions here .... and i will help you or point you in the right direction to where you can start your very own grunt and groan ... or whatever YOU decide to call it ....

that was a joke ... no flaming please ... but i am serious at the same time.

and i remember it from the 80s.

and the fish are still there PLT!

[aubreylc]

is there any way to get a project funded by the state? after all it will take money and resources. I guess i should say, in your opinion, is this possible?

[AM]

Well I had a long dissertation written but after thinking about it a while decided to toss it and just say I would certainly be in favor of it being a year round stream with supplemental stockings and regulations similar to Dukes. First though we need to hear opinions from Wildlife Biologists at DNR as to what is realistic given the nature of the stream.

[GrandeGunz]

Hello TheEndlessEnigma,

Seems we have a lot in common - Fellow alumni of North Hall/Gainesville College, Sagittarians, Fly Fishermen, Water's Creek enthusiasts, Brothers in Christ, etc. Only I'm a few years your senior.

I also was a very avid Water's creek fisherman in the 80's and 90's until the Otter's moved in and the DNR decided that "the otters weren't eating our trout but coexisting with them" and I was in the middle a back and forth argument that went on for months in "The Times". After which, I promptly retired my fly rods and bought a Bass Boat and took up Bass fishing. Also, I owned property on Dicks Creek at the bridge and had some "monster" trout that my neighbor would feed and guard on a daily basis. He would "exterminate with extreme prejudice" the otters that would move downstream from Water's and try to feast on our "pets". I imagine that he was a big reason that there probably aren't very many if any otters left on Waters Creek.

As the years have progressed, I keep feeling the need to pick up my fly rods and return to the rivers that I used to enjoy so much during my early years. Maybe 2008 will find my return to the sport that meant so much to me in my past.

Good luck.

[TheEndlessEnigma]

is there any way to get a project funded by the state? after all it will take money and resources. I guess i should say, in your opinion, is this possible?
the workday we have is somewhat funded by the state they briong all the materials and tools we need to work .... here is the problem..

MANPOWER!!!!!!

the usfs and the state co-regulate this area. as you may or may not know there have been many cuts and eliminations in the budget. that includes the number of people that can work and do this kind of stuff. these guys are stretched thin as is ... and just cannot devote all the time they have to one stream when so many more need just as much if not MORE work to keep up.

[baldea]

EE... do you think they would go for more than one work day a year?

[TheEndlessEnigma]

very doubtful their book is just too filled with all the projects done throughout the year..... im talking to jim wentworth about that possibility ... but honestly ... that would be slim to none .... if you knew how many of those things they are already doing .... you might want a day off too. just in jims area alone there are 30-40 a year .... not all are publicized mind you on some sensitive areas of course. but that pretty much takes up the whole calendar. the other days are too ... well ... not for me ... but for most ... cold being they are in the winter.

the dnr is already stretched thiiiiiiiiin on this.....

the best thing i can say at this point ....

for one is prove that you want change by showing up this sept 13th in LARRRGE numbers...

the more people there .... the more we can do.

the more people who support ..... the more likely we can get other things done..

but this is good discussion .... now i just wanna see the effort to go along with it

[baldea]

wow I didn't realize they had that many annually. I figured there were several unpublicized stream projects, TU coordinated, ect. but I didn't think it would be that many.

Let me know if you need another making any calls.

[Path_Less_Traveled]

EE's right... these DNR and USFS Biologists give up a lot of Saturdays doing stream work... they get "comp time"... but it's hard to get a Saturday back with your family, you know?

[Windknot]

these DNR and USFS Biologists give up a lot of Saturdays doing stream work

Comp time??? Aw, I thought they just liked Grizzz's burgers! :cheers:

[Windknot]

September 13, 2008, you are invited to join a grubby bunch of trout bums as they sweat & strain to install stream structures under the guidance of WRD's & USFS's finest biologists and hydrologists.

If you've ever wondered where those stream structures came from, or wondered why they are there placed where they are, this is your golden opportunity to find answers to those questions.

But wait! There's more!

Since this is a cooperative effort between NGTO & TU, in conjunction with WRD & USFS, NGTO historically prepares lunch. Not just lunch, but heaven on a bun. Well, it'll seem that way, 'cause by lunchtime you're gonna be hungry! :cheers:

Want to better understand stream improvements? Want to get a tour of Waters Creek before breaking out a rod and fishing? Want to feel like you've actually done something to improve the habitat?

As the date approaches, TheEndlessEnima will post a request for volunteers. Keep the project rolling; come lend a hand.
Don