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  • #31
    Not good!

    Saw at least a 22 incher float by my place today just as the generation started- dead as a doornail! No camera but my phone and it was too far away for a decent picture. Spoke with a couple kayakers who said they saw 4 or 5 good size fish dead as well. So are the big ones the first to go in the chain of events?

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    • #32
      Sounds like it could be stress from water temps, increased oxygen demands, or anglers playing their fish too long or not reviving them well under these conditions. You can expect to see more if weather conditions do not change.

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      • #33
        It sounds like if you are going to fish the Toccoa, in the near future, you might as well bring a stringer along.
        RoyC

        I'm not Retired, Fishing is a Full-Time JOB!

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        • #34
          Results I recorded from water monitoring at Hogback on Sunday (one before generation began and one after):

          Date: Aug. 22, 2010
          Time: 1:00 p.m.
          Air Temp: 27 c (87.6 f)
          Water Temp: 24 c (75.2 f)
          Dissolved Oxy: 8.5 ppm
          cfs: 188


          Date: Aug 22, 2010
          Time: 4:30 p.m.
          Air Temp: 29 c (84.2 f)
          Water Temp: 23 c (73.4 f)
          Dissolved Oxy: 8.5 ppm
          cfs 1,570


          Compared with last week, temps still creeping up with 24 degrees c. the highest I've recorded. But the DO remains good and is in fact a little higher.

          In response to a question from Julian, I'm using a LaMotte Dissolved Oxygen kit that utilizes the Winkler Tritration Method to determine DO, not as exact as some lab-level analysises, but something a layman like myself can manage for a reading in the .2 +/- ppm range.

          All I know to do at this point is keep our fingers crossed.

          John Pool

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          • #35
            Here is the latest info from John Damer on the tailwater:

            Quick update on tailwater temps:Yesterday we downloaded temperature data from 2 out of 4 thermographs that we have recording in the tailwater. One is located near the dam,and the other is down near McCaysville. Water temp at the dam has not been below 70*F since the 19th, and at McCaysville it has been since the 13th. Water temperatures have been peaking just under 80*F down in McCaysville. There is little relief from the tribs either. Checked Weaver, Hemptown, Hothouse, and Wolf Creeks last week and they were allover 72*F (Weaver Creek was 77.5*F).
            sigpic

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            • #36
              A Slow Death of the Toccoa Tailwater

              Riley checked the temperature below the dam yesterday. It was 76 degrees. Several reports of dead fish here and there. Remember pictures say a thousand words.

              I feel as though I am watching the slow death of one of the best fisheries in the Southeast.

              No matter how much you prepare for the worst. You realize your never really prepared...
              sigpic

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              • #37
                I knew the cold water wouldn't last with such a quick drawdown. The TVA could have started an early normal lake drawdown but hey, they are self serving. Look at what they did to the Clinch in Kingston. Distroyed a great striper fishery.

                I disagree that the Toccoa is one of the best but it is a good fishery. It's fun to fish and it's in a great area. It can be restocked when water temps drop.

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                • #38
                  RIP

                  Someone know a good lawyer? IMHO, property owners along the tailwater and all the guides have a fairly good case. Make that a real good case with proper recording of dead fish pics and temp readings.
                  "We are masters of the unsaid words, but slaves of those we let slip out”

                  - Sir Winston Churchill

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by clewis1014 View Post
                    RIP

                    Someone know a good lawyer? IMHO, property owners along the tailwater and all the guides have a fairly good case. Make that a real good case with proper recording of dead fish pics and temp readings.
                    Good luck with that.

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                    • #40
                      Is There Hope for the Toccoa?

                      I fished the S. Holston this past weekend and met a fisheries Biologist at the Weir Dam and I explained to him our scenario. In his opinion he said that the Toccoa tail waters cannot sustain the high water temperatures for very long along with constant generation. Even though the dissolved oxygen is high, the fish use more energy and oxygen during higher flows. If the water temps do not get below 70 degrees along with sustained high dissolved oxygen then death of the rivers trout and insects is inevitable.

                      He also said that the DNR should shut down fishing for trout all together during this critical stage. They had a similar scenario on a TVA tail water in Tennessee several years back and were able to save the river because they got the TVA to stop generation until cooler weather prevailed and they stopped fishing in the interim.

                      So may I ask what is wrong with our DNR? Why have they not put their foot down with the TVA? I thought our DNR is in charge of the fish? They TVA clearly ignored the DNR request to wait and look where we are at. So much for the Trout Capital of Georgia. Its more like the Trout Graveyard of Georgia now.

                      A common epitaph may read;

                      " Here lies Big Brother Brown, after many years of outsmarting the anglers it took the ignorance of the TVA to finally take him down" Rest in Peace Brother Brown !!

                      A little edgy yes but I am very sad for the many businesses that rely on this fishery to survive. BP had to pay the fisherman for their mistakes so maybe the TVA should pay the local businesses the same.

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                      • #41
                        yeah this sucks

                        Im really surprised at this, and also that more folks arent raising hell on the website here.

                        I love that river, i dont fi**** but 4-5 times a year, but its always been good to me. As a UGA fisheries graduate i have to say that the tailrace is an "unnatural" situation. trout wouldnt be there without the dam, or stocking, so i guess its not as bad as it could be, but i would think a field full of dead cows would **** some folks off too...especially since this can EASILY be prevented.

                        BUT it will come back pretty quickly. the tribs wont be as affected, and the critter population will quickly recolonize the river - if it even gets that bad.

                        as a fisherman i think its stupid - this could have waited a few weeks - start now, not 2-3 weeks ago and we would be better off..

                        TVA could have used this as PR stunt, make it a possative. now its a negative

                        Lets hope we get some good cloud cover, and possibly rain... although muddy water warms up faster doesnt it?


                        RPC

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Trout Addict View Post
                          So may I ask what is wrong with our DNR? Why have they not put their foot down with the TVA? I thought our DNR is in charge of the fish? They TVA clearly ignored the DNR request to wait and look where we are at. So much for the Trout Capital of Georgia. Its more like the Trout Graveyard of Georgia now.

                          A common epitaph may read;

                          " Here lies Big Brother Brown, after many years of outsmarting the anglers it took the ignorance of the TVA to finally take him down" Rest in Peace Brother Brown !!

                          A little edgy yes but I am very sad for the many businesses that rely on this fishery to survive. BP had to pay the fisherman for their mistakes so maybe the TVA should pay the local businesses the same.

                          Really you folks that are hell bent on crying fowl about how this is being handled by TVA and Ga DNR should go back and read all of the "Informative Post" from the meeting earlier this year. What about dam failure and flood control have you missed? The dam must be repaired and repairs need to be completed before the spring flooding rains. The loss of fish was pretty much a forgone conclusion 6 months ago. And once this is over, DNR will restock and in a few years the fishery will be back. It is not a pretty thing to see happen, but without the dam they would not be a cold water fishery.
                          RoyC

                          I'm not Retired, Fishing is a Full-Time JOB!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Trout Addict View Post
                            So may I ask what is wrong with our DNR? Why have they not put their foot down with the TVA?
                            Totally, totally off base here! The DNR and John Damer in particular have done everything humanly possible in trying to limit the damage of this unfortunate, but albeit, necessary event. From my understanding the DNR on more than one occassion asked the TVA to delay the start of the drawdown but I think Roy C's explanation above probably best explains why they had to make the decision they had to make. Do I like it? Of course not! Is the TVA making their decisions just to tick us off? I hope not. Not sure why they would want to do that even though they have tried to drown me on a couple of occassions with unannounced and UNNECESSARY releases.

                            While the DNR may have control over the fish, they have no control of the dam, which is 100% owned and operated by the TVA. In other words, the DNR really has no foot to put down.

                            That be said, however, I have faith, again like Roy C said, that the DNR will have this "unnatural" trout fishery back to normal as quickly as possible. Now if we can just talk them into some special regs when that time comes!

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                            • #44
                              OK fair enough. Let’s see if the TVA gets the project completed by Spring. Until then, you can be RIGHT since we are all RIGHT. Meanwhile, the local businesses can suffer while you go get your retirement check out of the mail box. 30 days would have made a world of difference. By the time the water being pumped raised above the thermo cline cooler days and nights would be here to help cool the water. That is all the DNR wanted was for them to wait 30 days. Furthermore, since when can anyone predict what will happen in the spring with regard to rain? The Spring of 2010 was drier than the Fall of 2009. Here are the totals for Fannin County;

                              October 2009 7.34 in
                              November 2009 7.58 in
                              December 2009 8.87 in
                              January 2010 7.88 in
                              February 2010 5.41 in
                              March 2010 4.83 in
                              April 2010 4.63 in

                              It looks like the TVA got you hook, line and sinker. No pun intended.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Trout Addict View Post
                                Until then, you can be RIGHT since we are all RIGHT. Meanwhile, the local businesses can suffer while you go get your retirement check out of the mail box.
                                Not sure I understand these two comments. What are you suggesting? And what does a retirement check have to do with the obvious suffering SOME local businesses may experience?
                                Originally posted by Trout Addict View Post
                                Furthermore, since when can anyone predict what will happen in the spring with regard to rain? It looks like the TVA got you hook, line and sinker. No pun intended.
                                Only history, and 30 years of it, is anyone's best guess at best.
                                Jan. 5.2"
                                Feb. 5.2"
                                Mar. 6.2"
                                Apr. 4.7"
                                May 4.8"
                                Jun. 4.3"
                                Jul. 4.9"
                                Aut. 4.4"
                                Sep. 4.3"
                                Oct. 3.8"
                                Nov. 4.5"
                                Dec. 4.9"

                                (From Weatherbase.com)

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