http://www.georgia-outdoors.com/images/ngto/banners/FernValleyBanner_2014.gif
http://georgia-outdoors.com/images/ngto/banners/2012NovNGTOBanner.gif

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

interesting article

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Philhutch80 View Post
    Best thing to do is join your local TU chapter and pay no attention to the author of this writing. Where did you dig this up from @Jason?
    I have read the book and found this interview recently. Any chance you listened to it or read it?

    Why ignore a person who has spent a twenty year career studying how rivers, creeks, and streams function over time?
    “There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” - Aldo Leopold

    Concede parum, nega frequenter, distingue semper - St. Thomas Aquinas

    'Stand by the roads, and look and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is and walk in it, and find rest for your souls'. Jeremiah 6:16

    "Wonder is the desire for knowledge" - St. Thomas Aquinas

    Comment


    • #32
      I forgot about this post. Makes me want to go fish a DH somewhere...
      The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

      The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jason View Post
        I have read the book and found this interview recently. Any chance you listened to it or read it?

        Why ignore a person who has spent a twenty year career studying how rivers, creeks, and streams function over time?
        I read some notes and listened to the interview. I get what he is saying but I feel his view is a bit one sided and jaded. It is not a holistic view but rather specifically honing in on one cog of the wheel. Then again, the other part not being mentioned is the arrogance of man believing we can control nature. Where did you find the book at btw, I have not looked as of yet. Thanks!
        #JBNavy

        "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
        -Chinese Proverb

        “At sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.”
        -Norman Maclean

        "We are what we hunt."
        -PH

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Philhutch80 View Post
          I read some notes and listened to the interview. I get what he is saying but I feel his view is a bit one sided and jaded. It is not a holistic view but rather specifically honing in on one cog of the wheel. Then again, the other part not being mentioned is the arrogance of man believing we can control nature. Where did you find the book at btw, I have not looked as of yet. Thanks!
          No it’s not a holistic view. However, I do think he starts in the right place, with the waters and not the with the fisherman.

          Man thinking they can control nature has always been my issue with “stream improvement” projects. Generally when we try to control we end up screwing up.

          Ordered it from B&N or Amazon.
          “There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.” - Aldo Leopold

          Concede parum, nega frequenter, distingue semper - St. Thomas Aquinas

          'Stand by the roads, and look and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is and walk in it, and find rest for your souls'. Jeremiah 6:16

          "Wonder is the desire for knowledge" - St. Thomas Aquinas

          Comment


          • #35
            The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

            Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
            If you have difficulty understanding the post above, read it out loud and it should make sense. This NGTO member is known for his poor hill-billy upbringing and his affinity for all things from Louisiana (particularly if it relates to LSU). It makes for a poor mix of accents and much difficulty in translation. He was doing well for so long, but now seems to have regressed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Jason View Post
              No it’s not a holistic view. However, I do think he starts in the right place, with the waters and not the with the fisherman.

              Man thinking they can control nature has always been my issue with “stream improvement” projects. Generally when we try to control we end up screwing up.

              Ordered it from B&N or Amazon.
              I agree with you Jason. Starting with the water is the key. Man thinking he has control over nature is our greatest downfall unfortunately. The Hooch is a great example of that and then humans giving up (squarely pointing at Morgan Falls and the Southern Company).

              Originally posted by Swamp Angel View Post
              The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

              Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
              Swampy, I am right there with you. He does not understand that there are many people that use that fish excrement as fertilizer for their gardens or even have aquaponic set ups where the fish excrement supplies the entire nutrient needs for the plants.
              #JBNavy

              "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
              -Chinese Proverb

              “At sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.”
              -Norman Maclean

              "We are what we hunt."
              -PH

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Philhutch80 View Post
                I agree with you Jason. Starting with the water is the key. Man thinking he has control over nature is our greatest downfall unfortunately. The Hooch is a great example of that and then humans giving up (squarely pointing at Morgan Falls and the Southern Company).



                Swampy, I am right there with you. He does not understand that there are many people that use that fish excrement as fertilizer for their gardens or even have aquaponic set ups where the fish excrement supplies the entire nutrient needs for the plants.
                Can't tell you how many times I've poured koi poop into some older ladies garden. Best fertilizer around.

                Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • #38
                  I said my piece when this post popped up the first time. The science hasn't changed since then.
                  The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

                  The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Swamp Angel View Post
                    The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

                    Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
                    Reality check: Fish hatcheries concentrate fish poop into a single outfall, and they also hold many,many more fish than a river does naturally. So, even way downstream, there is much more fish poop in the water in a river that has a hatchery than one that does not.

                    This does not even get into the issue of disease leaving the hatchery, which is now being recognized as a huge problem even with salmon farms, which are generally floating in the open waters of the ocean and bays.

                    The Law of Unintended Consequences is very strong in the aquaculture business, whether a facility is run for fun or profit.

                    FM
                    The tug is the drug!

                    "Grow a pear!" - Groundpounder

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      And... once again fishmonger straightens me out. Good point, Mark. I hadn't thought about the concentration factor.
                      If you have difficulty understanding the post above, read it out loud and it should make sense. This NGTO member is known for his poor hill-billy upbringing and his affinity for all things from Louisiana (particularly if it relates to LSU). It makes for a poor mix of accents and much difficulty in translation. He was doing well for so long, but now seems to have regressed.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        If you've never fished around the outlet from a hatchery, you are missing out...
                        The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

                        The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          FM nails it

                          Originally posted by fishmonger View Post
                          Reality check: Fish hatcheries concentrate fish poop into a single outfall, and they also hold many,many more fish than a river does naturally. So, even way downstream, there is much more fish poop in the water in a river that has a hatchery than one that does not.

                          This does not even get into the issue of disease leaving the hatchery, which is now being recognized as a huge problem even with salmon farms, which are generally floating in the open waters of the ocean and bays.

                          The Law of Unintended Consequences is very strong in the aquaculture business, whether a facility is run for fun or profit.

                          FM
                          Totally agree with you FM, the heightened PPM of food, excrement and other things changes the water a good bit. The one thing that will vary though is due to the size of the river or stream how much it gets dilluted. When I was in Ennis this summer and saw the creek that flows out of the national hatchery I was blown away by how much biomass was in that little creek as a result of the runoff from the hatchery.
                          The diseases are a whole other issue in itself. Fish can get diseases similar to chickens or other foods that are kept in high population areas with little room to move around. There is a documentary about this and how it has affected the entire global salmon industry but I cannot remember what the name of it is right now.
                          #JBNavy

                          "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
                          -Chinese Proverb

                          “At sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.”
                          -Norman Maclean

                          "We are what we hunt."
                          -PH

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by fishinbub View Post
                            Too bad this article was written 100 years too late...and critiquing present day stocking. So which wild brook trout stream still receives stocked fish again?
                            North Carolina stocks in creeks that have wild brook trout populations all the time.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by fishmonger View Post
                              Reality check: Fish hatcheries concentrate fish poop into a single outfall, and they also hold many,many more fish than a river does naturally. So, even way downstream, there is much more fish poop in the water in a river that has a hatchery than one that does not.

                              This does not even get into the issue of disease leaving the hatchery, which is now being recognized as a huge problem even with salmon farms, which are generally floating in the open waters of the ocean and bays.

                              The Law of Unintended Consequences is very strong in the aquaculture business, whether a facility is run for fun or profit.

                              FM
                              On the flipside, the majority of free stone trout streams are naturally deficient in fecundity, and the nutrient load they carry is pretty minimal. The actual effect is often just to add juice to the local ecosystem for a ways downstream of the discharge, especially since most hatcheries artificially chill and aerate the water that passes through their raceways (meaning hatchery waste outflows are dumping a bunch of extra cold, heavily oxygenated water back into the stream, not just pellets, spent eggs, dead fry and trout poop). I deliberately target hatchery outflows wherever I find them on accessible water; around here, they're a pretty reliable indicator of superior fishing. To name a famous local example, the only difference between the Davidson River, and hundreds of other lower valley big river tribs with wild brown trout in North Carolina is the Setzer Hatchery.

                              But that's here, on top of all this ancient igneous shield rock, in streams otherwise starved of the nutrients necessary to sustain life. In places where cold streams flow through low lying coastal or alluvial plains with a lot more natural fecundity, I can see it being more problematic.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The "dead zones" thing the author of the op-ed is laying at the feet of hatcheries is completely absurd, though. We know what causes estuarine dead zones, and, overwhelmingly, it is agricultural effluent and lawn runoff. The nutrient boost from a mountain or upper piedmont hatchery has been siphoned off and converted to living biomass long before it reaches the sea.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X