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interesting article

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  • interesting article

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/11...?_r=1&referrer
    "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn."

    Chuck Clark

  • #2
    All I can say is never accept aquatic science findings from a geology professor. Back to your rocks Mr and go catch some wild bluegill if it will make you feel better.

    Comment


    • #3
      interesting article

      I'm not agreeing with him, but I never want to dismiss something right from the start. It did make me think about keeping stockers though. I had bought into the idea of catch and release as the primary way to fish and to only keep a few fish a year. This has at least got me interested in learning more and may lead to a change in my approach. I would assume that he is very close to people who would know a great deal about this subject.
      "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn."

      Chuck Clark

      Comment


      • #4
        Green Eye Shade On

        Let me put my green eye shade on (old time newspaper editors wore those) and take another look at the article. From the standpoint of credentials the author has an advanced degree, but not in fishery science. This does not discount him from knowing a lot about fish and hatcheries, but neither does it qualify him. The author should have told us what the qualifications are to make a very scientific statement. There are a lot of numbers mentioned and while none sound unreasonable, there is no reference to source material. Also, the terms "about" and "I think" rotate this to editorial status, not news or information.

        That said, it is something to consider. It would be wonderful to have our fisheries in an all natural state and managed for a sustainable harvest. It's a micro environment, but that is what is going on in GSMNP after years of studies. Is this feasible on a national basis? It could be but too many water ways are interstate so the regulations in one state may not line up with those in next state up or down river. Consider west coast steelhead. If the state of Washington had no steelhead regs and Idaho had all C&R regulations it would be pointless as few if any steelhead would get that far. And yes, commercial fisheries have to be considered in this.

        So our author's piece would not make it past me as an editor, certainly not as a news article and marginal at best as editorial. Ask yourself, could you write the same piece with equal credibility?

        Eye Shade off and that's -30-

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by The Ole Man View Post
          All I can say is never accept aquatic science findings from a geology professor. Back to your rocks Mr and go catch some wild bluegill if it will make you feel better.
          x2. He should stick with rocks...aquatic ecology is not his cup of tea.
          The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

          The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jason
            I'd love for either of you to go point by point and explain where he is wrong.
            I would, but I simply can't refute the indisputable truth that the Burton Trout Hatchery is causing "dead zones" that are "choking estuaries and coastal ecosystems downstream." You got me...
            The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

            The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jason
              So as a sophomore at a North Georgia junior college you're pretty sure he's wrong because you say so?
              Yes, that is exactly why he is wrong...
              The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

              The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

              Comment


              • #8
                Made me think his theory could be tested at the local hatcheries. Examine oxygen concentrations, conduct chemical analysis of downstream waters, etc. and assess if the hatcheries impact the local ecosystem. Or does the state do this already? Would like to see some hard data from this fellow. Or something peer-reviewed.
                "What's his offense?"
                "Groping for trouts in a peculiar river."
                ― William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jason
                  So as a sophomore at a North Georgia junior college you're pretty sure he's wrong because you say so?
                  Actually he's a senior environmental science major at a private 4-year college who just recently presented a great capstone project which studied the benefits of in-stream structures for native brook trout.

                  And yes, I'm biased but that doesn't prove my statement false.
                  Speck

                  Follower of Christ
                  Pursuer of trout
                  -------------------------------------------------
                  "Your genuine action will explain itself and will explain your other genuine actions. Your conformity explains nothing." -- Emerson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This fellows use of "may", "I estimate", "about" and "I think" belies a deficient foundational scientific basis. He begins by defining 8 million trout and salmon anglers in a nation of 330 million people as "immense" fishing pressure. Then he tries to blame the unsustainable use of small ocean fish on the production of trout pellets. I estimate (he did it) that the use of fish oil and fish meal for stocker-trout pellet production is a miniscule amount compared to the amount used for liquid fish fertilizer (which organic farmers have discovered); for catfish, tilapia and other edible fish aquaculture and for the biggie--chicken/turkey/poultry and other animal feeds. He calls trout pellet production "devastating marine species to support a hobby". His notion of waste having uneaten pellets in a hatchery is laughable. From my observation no pellet goes uneaten and if anything there is barely enough to go around. The dead and dying fish going into the waste water dump would be illegal. Georgia and I imagine most states have laws and regs regarding disposal of dead animals including fish. Buford Hatchery used to compost dead fish and probably still do so. I believe the fish pond at Buford is a settling pond for waste prior to a river dump--not sure. All hatchery fish trace their ancestry to wild brood stock so how are they born poorly adapted to life in the wild ? Are animals and humans born of artificial insemination born poorly adapted to life on earth? Do they have undesirable traits that they pass on to the natural born? If studies show that 75 to 80% of stocked fish (as he says) are gone soon after stocking then one could surmise that close to 100% are also gone shortly after that. So how do they hang around to harm the native species? I could go on but I tire of hunt and peck typing. I will leave the rest for fishnbub. I don't know about other states but without hatchery support trout fishing would be a small niche pastime conducted in the high hills of North Georgia.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      geology

                      to be fair, geologists study fish a good bit. Just not in the present...
                      "I don't hate trout fishing, just the people who trout fish."
                      -Our friend Nam, but secretly Ret

                      "Stop Whining"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think that he is referring to large fisheries up north and out west. This doesn't really apply here all that much other than that maybe we should look at catch and release a little differently. But hey he must be wrong because stocking in ga led to the thriving and widespread native brookie population right?
                        "Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn."

                        Chuck Clark

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Ole Man View Post
                          All I can say is never accept aquatic science findings from a geology professor. Back to your rocks Mr and go catch some wild bluegill if it will make you feel better.
                          Hey now!!! Geo-nerds have diverse interests at times and often have other degrees or minors in the biological sciences as they would like to be gainfully employed. Worse yet, he could be an engineer.

                          Originally posted by The Ole Man View Post
                          Buford Hatchery used to compost dead fish and probably still do so. I believe the fish pond at Buford is a settling pond for waste prior to a river dump--not sure.
                          Yep. That big ole aerator (the fountain) isn't there for aesthetics. Although the fish in the pond are probably as good as any, the perception keeps it a C&R fishery.
                          Last edited by THE EG; 04-16-15, 04:29 PM.
                          If this were rocket science most of us wouldn't be doing it. - Terry Creech

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dlcoach77 View Post
                            I think that he is referring to large fisheries up north and out west. This doesn't really apply here all that much other than that maybe we should look at catch and release a little differently. But hey he must be wrong because stocking in ga led to the thriving and widespread native brookie population right?
                            Too bad this article was written 100 years too late...and critiquing present day stocking. So which wild brook trout stream still receives stocked fish again?
                            The first thing scripture tells us about man is that we're made in the image of God. The second thing it says is that man should have dominion over the fishes of the sea.

                            The right flies at the right time: Monthly Fly

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jason
                              Great, so let's hear him refute the good Doctor's claims, without snide comments or an attempt to degrade his credentials. If he's accomplished in his field of study it should be simple.
                              I'll leave that to him as he is far closer to an expert in the field than I.

                              I just wanted to refute your snide comment.
                              Speck

                              Follower of Christ
                              Pursuer of trout
                              -------------------------------------------------
                              "Your genuine action will explain itself and will explain your other genuine actions. Your conformity explains nothing." -- Emerson

                              Comment

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