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  • #46
    What we can assume is that some individuals from certain areas around the .....more populated parts of the state spend vastly less time occupying, an monitoring the northeast Mountain streams. They might visit every other week, or once per month. They might not have studied Chemistry, Biology, Ecology, and Environmental Science. They might not understand how stream productivity works. How organic input works, and how trout grow and survive. They might be of the assumption that special regulations grow bigger trout, which in turn feeds their unrealized yet ever present addiction to bigger fish. The big fish syndrome. They might not realize the catastrophe that adding additional trout fingerlings will develop in the majority, if not all of our wild streams. Increased population in streams at carrying capacity, reduced food resources, stunted fish, increased potential for disease. Few folks, especially those that spend little time at all on our wild, mountain streams will understand things like productivity and carrying capacity. Most trout fishermen just want bigger fish, and don't consider that we are on the peripheral of real trout habitat which can grow good fish. Too many fishermen want to create something that can't be. If you have a horniness for big trout in abundance, you simply need to move west where you can talk on forums about the big trout on so and so popular river. If you have that horniness for big trout, and little understanding of water chemistry and productivity, you need to be fishing GA's paid operations to catch big fish. You should be satisfied. But trying to turn a small wild stream into a trophy stream where the stream cannot support it's inhabitants is negligent and irresponsible. Doing that in other parts of the country where the biology can easily support the increased biomass is perfectly fine. Doing it here in barely productive streams is not fine. Most biologists agree that harvest in brook trout streams is a healthy thing. I'd say if a man has an insatiable desire for bigger trout, he needs to put his money where his mouth is, and move to big trout country, and not attempt to manipulate the marginal peripheral of good trout habitat into something it shouldn't be. If he feels like he has the answers, and he has a degree in biology, Chemistry, or Ecology, then maybe he should spend his efforts working for our state DNR or the USFS and attempt to affect some change rather than harping about on a fruitless forum thread. Be the change.

    Comment


    • #47
      Ahhh, the casting of aspersions and misstating of positions continues. I'm not sure why I would take a >50% pay cut when I can just take the ideas to their bosses. I probably won't, though, because there are much more important avenues of change to pursue.
      -skunked

      Warning: all posts should be assumed to contain sarcasm and misinformation unless stated otherwise. The opinions shared are not necessarily those of the poster.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Killer Kyle View Post
        What we can assume is that some individuals from certain areas around the .....more populated parts of the state spend vastly less time occupying, an monitoring the northeast Mountain streams. They might visit every other week, or once per month. They might not have studied Chemistry, Biology, Ecology, and Environmental Science. They might not understand how stream productivity works. How organic input works, and how trout grow and survive. They might be of the assumption that special regulations grow bigger trout, which in turn feeds their unrealized yet ever present addiction to bigger fish. The big fish syndrome. They might not realize the catastrophe that adding additional trout fingerlings will develop in the majority, if not all of our wild streams. Increased population in streams at carrying capacity, reduced food resources, stunted fish, increased potential for disease. Few folks, especially those that spend little time at all on our wild, mountain streams will understand things like productivity and carrying capacity. Most trout fishermen just want bigger fish, and don't consider that we are on the peripheral of real trout habitat which can grow good fish. Too many fishermen want to create something that can't be. If you have a horniness for big trout in abundance, you simply need to move west where you can talk on forums about the big trout on so and so popular river. If you have that horniness for big trout, and little understanding of water chemistry and productivity, you need to be fishing GA's paid operations to catch big fish. You should be satisfied. But trying to turn a small wild stream into a trophy stream where the stream cannot support it's inhabitants is negligent and irresponsible. Doing that in other parts of the country where the biology can easily support the increased biomass is perfectly fine. Doing it here in barely productive streams is not fine. Most biologists agree that harvest in brook trout streams is a healthy thing. I'd say if a man has an insatiable desire for bigger trout, he needs to put his money where his mouth is, and move to big trout country, and not attempt to manipulate the marginal peripheral of good trout habitat into something it shouldn't be. If he feels like he has the answers, and he has a degree in biology, Chemistry, or Ecology, then maybe he should spend his efforts working for our state DNR or the USFS and attempt to affect some change rather than harping about on a fruitless forum thread. Be the change.
        Excellent post!

        Comment


        • #49
          As someone who's been fishing for under 2 years and became instantly hooked when I was introduced to the Chattahoochee, I've always felt like people are too unwilling to share anything about the waters they fish. I mean sure, in a way I understand, you don't want the waters you fish to be fished by anyone more than you (joke). This post mentions an extremely popular creek and people start arguing.

          I wanted to fish new places after months on the Chattahoochee and starting looking for creeks on every website I could find recommendations for. The DNR website is a blessing. I've fished wildcat, rock, cooper, dicks, and some other rivers in the area. Once spring comes around, I'll pull out the DNR maps and stocking lists, and look for more.

          I have found maybe one trout fisherman so far, in all my time fishing, who's been willing suggest a location to fish. That's kind of discouraging. For a community that's fairly friendly, trout fisherman are also very suppressing of help when it comes to fishing something new (Maybe people don't take younger fisherman seriously?). Everyone and their mother has """secret""" spots that no ears must hear. Back to the maps!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by fishinbub View Post
            I always look at car tags when I fish. When I see a Cobb, Fulton, Clarke, or Gwinnett County tag it tells me I am safe to fish behind you, but I sure as heck don't want to get stuck behind you going up 197...

            Jackson, Hall, Franklin, and Banks County usually means I can fish behind you, but the bite won't be as good. When I see a tag from Rabun, White, Habersham, or Towns County it's time to strike up a conversation to see what you're up to, then come back to the same spot next time.
            What about a car tag from Educator County?

            Comment


            • #51
              This thread suddenly has more action than a parking lot after the stocking truck pulls out...

              So many questions and responses:

              1) Kyle - you truly are a renaissance man! Respect received and returned-
              broad curiosity is one of the finest attributes a person can have and I love encountering people who will pursue interests to their end. And truly, following a blueline further up and further in is one of the closest things we humans probably get to saying farewell to these shadowlands...

              ii) Where is Granolaville? Is this Atlanta? I moved around a lot as a kid, and a bit as an adult, and I have lived both on the west coast and in the northeast - let me tell you about Granolavilles.

              c) I don't see DeKalb county on the list - since I reside in No Services County, let me help you out. You can fish behind DeKalb but stay out of sight - if DeKalb sees you back there, he will stop what he's doing, wave his arms furiously to catch your attention, and will run in breathless splashing footsteps down the middle of the stream, finally stopping in the middle of the pool you're fishing, leaning against the tree that overhangs the bank, and shouting so loud he can be heard from all the Granolavilles 'HEY ANY LUCK?'. Fear the DeKalb plates.

              fourth) lumis, the person who taught me to fly fish started by telling me that the creek is a puzzle - fly fishing in Georgia is a puzzle of puzzles with a lot of time spent puzzling over where the puzzles actually are. I recommend getting out there and not expecting to catch a lot of fish at first, then coming back here and writing reports - posters will reach out after some time of putting in the leg work. If you're still stymied, volunteer with a TU branch and do some streak work - this will get you off and fishing, I guarantee it (unless you act like my obviously absurd characterization of DeKalb county which I live in and chose to live in so I'm making fun of myself too).

              As a story ... I went a few years ago to a certain state park not to fish but to do a 20mi trail run. While out running in the furthest reaches of this park, I saw a man with a fly rod eating lunch by the side of a creek. I stopped to stretch and we spoke - he said this was trout water. I was amazed - the creek was as wide as a car seat and wasn't on the stocking map - how was this possible? I came back two weeks later with my fly rod, fished up and down this creek, and caught nothing. On the way out, I stopped and talked to a ranger - she was surprised I hadn't caught anything because that creek was 'full of wild trout'. I came back a while later, again to run, and while getting my trail permit asked a different ranger about trout - 'trout?' she said, 'here? Its too warm.'. While out running, I saw a guy with a spinning rod on the other end of the park. Talked to him again a bit, he shook his head and said the creek where I saw the guy with the fly rod was too warm, the only creek with fish was on the other end of the park, but it was full of wild fish. I came back and tried what I must have been the creek where mr spin rod was, and was again skunked. While packing up in the parking lot, a hiker looked at me funny and said 'there haven't been any fish here in years'.

              Puzzles of puzzles. Maybe they saw my DeKalb plates? Maybe it was other members of this board, dressed as rangers and executing a hustle to keep me confused?

              I will say ... while people are protective of the best places and the fishing holes, it means when you find somewhere good, it will be quiet and wonderful and well-maintained. I have lived in places where it's all available on the Internet, easily searchable, no puzzles at all... and it definitely takes away from the experience. While it is periodically maddening, I prefer Georgia.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by mudrun View Post
                This thread suddenly has more action than a parking lot after the stocking truck pulls out...

                So many questions and responses:

                1) Kyle - you truly are a renaissance man! Respect received and returned-
                broad curiosity is one of the finest attributes a person can have and I love encountering people who will pursue interests to their end. And truly, following a blueline further up and further in is one of the closest things we humans probably get to saying farewell to these shadowlands...

                ii) Where is Granolaville? Is this Atlanta? I moved around a lot as a kid, and a bit as an adult, and I have lived both on the west coast and in the northeast - let me tell you about Granolavilles.

                c) I don't see DeKalb county on the list - since I reside in No Services County, let me help you out. You can fish behind DeKalb but stay out of sight - if DeKalb sees you back there, he will stop what he's doing, wave his arms furiously to catch your attention, and will run in breathless splashing footsteps down the middle of the stream, finally stopping in the middle of the pool you're fishing, leaning against the tree that overhangs the bank, and shouting so loud he can be heard from all the Granolavilles 'HEY ANY LUCK?'. Fear the DeKalb plates.

                fourth) lumis, the person who taught me to fly fish started by telling me that the creek is a puzzle - fly fishing in Georgia is a puzzle of puzzles with a lot of time spent puzzling over where the puzzles actually are. I recommend getting out there and not expecting to catch a lot of fish at first, then coming back here and writing reports - posters will reach out after some time of putting in the leg work. If you're still stymied, volunteer with a TU branch and do some streak work - this will get you off and fishing, I guarantee it (unless you act like my obviously absurd characterization of DeKalb county which I live in and chose to live in so I'm making fun of myself too).

                As a story ... I went a few years ago to a certain state park not to fish but to do a 20mi trail run. While out running in the furthest reaches of this park, I saw a man with a fly rod eating lunch by the side of a creek. I stopped to stretch and we spoke - he said this was trout water. I was amazed - the creek was as wide as a car seat and wasn't on the stocking map - how was this possible? I came back two weeks later with my fly rod, fished up and down this creek, and caught nothing. On the way out, I stopped and talked to a ranger - she was surprised I hadn't caught anything because that creek was 'full of wild trout'. I came back a while later, again to run, and while getting my trail permit asked a different ranger about trout - 'trout?' she said, 'here? Its too warm.'. While out running, I saw a guy with a spinning rod on the other end of the park. Talked to him again a bit, he shook his head and said the creek where I saw the guy with the fly rod was too warm, the only creek with fish was on the other end of the park, but it was full of wild fish. I came back and tried what I must have been the creek where mr spin rod was, and was again skunked. While packing up in the parking lot, a hiker looked at me funny and said 'there haven't been any fish here in years'.

                Puzzles of puzzles. Maybe they saw my DeKalb plates? Maybe it was other members of this board, dressed as rangers and executing a hustle to keep me confused?

                I will say ... while people are protective of the best places and the fishing holes, it means when you find somewhere good, it will be quiet and wonderful and well-maintained. I have lived in places where it's all available on the Internet, easily searchable, no puzzles at all... and it definitely takes away from the experience. While it is periodically maddening, I prefer Georgia.
                1. I'm interested in hearing more about Granolavilles. Do tell!

                2. If you want some native Georgia trout, you should check out the feeder creeks in the head of the North and Middle Forks of the Broad River in Stephens County. Fishnbub is quite familiar with these as well.

                3. If you haven't already, you should buy 'Trout Fishing in North Georgia,' by Jimmy Jacobs. It's a good starting point.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Where is granolaville in relation to whoville?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Killer Kyle View Post
                    I never thought W#$&+*T creek would be on the list?! News to me!! Speaking of which, I need to see this list....just so that I don't make the same offense twice.
                    You, out of the gene pool...

                    :: rigs up my 1820's 2wt bamboo rod, ties on #24 rare BWO subspecies ( hand tied of course ) to 9x tippet, puts on reading glasses, packs pipe, takes a nip of some 1st barrel/ generation Pappy, heads to Wildcat Creek... ::
                    Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right... R. Hunter

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      So I finally had to click into this thread to see why a fish report from Wildcat Creek would generate 13,000 views. Oh man, it never ends does it!
                      Message sent from your mom's bedroom during pillow talk

                      Buck Henry
                      Simple Goat Herder
                      Former NGTO President
                      Hall of Fame Member

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        My two cents...

                        If y’all are worried bout stream names on an obscure trout fishing forum online don’t ever go on social media. Plenty of named streams on Instagram, Facebook and Snapchat and there are far more people there.
                        @killerkyle, pretty much everything you said is spot on sir. Appreciate the sensibility you provide.
                        #JBNavy

                        "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
                        -Chinese Proverb

                        “At sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.”
                        -Norman Maclean

                        "We are what we hunt."
                        -PH

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by buckman1 View Post
                          1. I'm interested in hearing more about Granolavilles. Do tell!
                          This is a HUGE question... I could go on for days and days. But since it's the quiet season and this thread is already wavering in its tracks, here are two contrasting stories, what I consider the closest thing we have to a Platonic ideal of Granolavilles (Burlington VT), all the way down the wick to Atlanta which measures a 1.1 on the Granola scale.

                          BURLINGTON, VERMONT

                          This is my junior year in high school, and I'm looking at colleges. The state university of the state where I live is overpriced and isn't much to speak of - the education quality is low, the experience is terrible - so we are looking at state schools that are good in states where I have family. Vermont is one, Louisiana, interestingly, is another - and the idea is that I will move in with them over the summer, and after freshman year, be eligible for in-state tuition. I can't believe this works, but it does. I've been to LSU several times in my youth, but never Vermont.

                          So my dad and I are in Burlington, VT, looking at University of Vermont (UVM). Burlington is a nice little town, the lake is beautiful, and its a bright, warm day to go look at the school. Fine. The tour guide is taking us around, and we're going around, etc. etc, you know how this goes. Towards the end, she is going to take us to student housing, but the dorm she wants to take us to has a fire alarm blaring. She pauses for a second, and starts to indicate that she's going to cut the tour short, when another parent says 'Why don't we just go look at this dorm?' pointing to the building next to it.

                          She stares at this new dorm - a squat, brick fire hazard - then bites her lip and frowns - I noticed this at the time but only understood the relevance in retrospect - at that moment, someone walks out the front door of this dorm, a parent on our tour catches it before it closes, and whatever her hesitation was doesn't matter: we're going in.

                          This dorm, for some reason, is full of students even though its the summer, and all the doors are open into the hallway, which is snaked every which way with a sprawling labyrinth of power cables, terminal strips, more power cables, all plugged into and out of each other. A guy wiping off his glasses walks out of a room, puts his glasses on, and stares at us in shock. I'm suddenly very confused - this isn't a dorm - this is clearly a science building. Specifically, it looks like a botany lab - there are huge glass bell jars full of water on floors and shelves and dressers and beds? So this is a dorm? And looking closer, i see it's the same kind of plant in every bell jar, and the cables are powering huge arrays of bright lights ...

                          ...because we have walked into what can only be described as a massive hydroponic marijuana operation, in a dorm room, on the official school tour, powered by the university.

                          My dad didn't say anything. At all. On the drive out of town, we passed four people next to an ancient car pulled off to the side of the road, jumping up and down. Thinking they were in distress (this was the era of walking to a pay phone if your car broke down), my dad pulled over. We got out, walked over, my dad asked if they were ok - one of the guys said yeah! Great! and asked us if we wanted to buy some cheese sandwiches.

                          What? my dad asked, looking at their car (it was an AMC gremlin - anyone remember these babies? push button transmission), which was open and had hundreds of white-bread-and-single-slice cheese sandwiches wrapped in paper, buzzing with flies.

                          Are you hurt? Is that thing ... broken?

                          No, we're fine, the guy said, just trying to sell some cheese sandwiches.

                          My dad turned away, got back in the car, and drove. He started talking again about two states later when he asked if I wanted to pull over for some hot dogs.

                          CANDLER PARK, ATLANTA

                          Most hound breeds have interesting stories - many of them were created and bred for a specific purpose, and this is especially true with southern hounds.
                          People came from somewhere to a new place, refined the dog breeds they brought with them for the land they found, and created a new and distinct hound breed. Plotts, walkers, Laceys, etc - the story is similar. I love hounds and always have.

                          I keep a large hound of a certain breed. She runs with me, so she keeps lean and strong. She is distinct to look at, with a deeply expressive wrinkly hound face, and we are often waylaid by other people out who stop to pet her.

                          I was running on the PATH trail through Candler Park not so long ago, when I was stopped by a couple walking. they complimented my dog, asked me what it was. I told them - they'd never heard of that breed, they said, what was it? So I explained.

                          The woman stared at me in horror and asked 'Dont you feel so guilty for your dog being such a blatant artifact of colonialism?'

                          I think I might have said nothing at all here, but I was trying to get out the word 'What?'

                          'This is disgusting! I can't believe you would ... parade this animal around and be proud of it. That story you just told is a story of shame, and you-'

                          (note that these were her words as I remember them - not an exaggeration. Sadly.)

                          This level and onset of hostility was pretty surprising to me - but apparently par for the course in certain parts of town.

                          I need to think about this topic a but more ... but I have Granolaville chronicles from San Francisco and Washington DC that felt like, at the time, I was living among an alien civilization on another planet.

                          Keep in mind, there's always something to like about anywhere you live - no place is totally irredeemable (there are a few that come very, very close).

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by I_got_skunked View Post
                            Ahhh, the casting of aspersions and misstating of positions continues. I'm not sure why I would take a >50% pay cut when I can just take the ideas to their bosses. I probably won't, though, because there are much more important avenues of change to pursue.
                            Since Skunked flaunts her salary to the public, I'm sure she has or can donate privately to more than her mandatory annual $40.00 TU fee for the feel goods and the sweet car sticker. I wonder if she could perhaps privately fund some stream enhancement work? With a salary like that, I'll bet she has. But she'll just leave it to the peasant wildlife managers who actually manage the wild to put her bright ideas into action. It's true. DNR employees receive a humble salary. It's not because they cater to the trout elite who look down their noses at those fishing for trout with crickets as immoral humans. It's because many of them consider themselves public servants. It is a life which sacrifices pay for work satisfaction. Satisfaction which even benefits the elite trout fisherman with expensive gear, and yet uninformed opinions about trout and their existence in general.
                            I agree with you on one thing Skunked. More significant change does need to be affected. Unfortunately, we just don't have BLM, Hillary Conventions, Target Stores, rainbow parades, and women's rights marches to attend here in the mountains. Buckman said he would be willing to dress up as a woman's reproductive system to march in the rallies, but unfortunately they are just way too far away from the mountains for him to drive. I hope you can do some good marching in the rallies down there. Since I'm so far away from those important things, all I have to do on the weekends is hit the wild streams. Maybe one day I can get down there and loot the shops or block the streets and be a part of something real. I wish I could be of more help!
                            Last edited by Killer Kyle; 01-29-18, 06:56 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Lumis View Post
                              As someone who's been fishing for under 2 years and became instantly hooked when I was introduced to the Chattahoochee, I've always felt like people are too unwilling to share anything about the waters they fish. I mean sure, in a way I understand, you don't want the waters you fish to be fished by anyone more than you (joke). This post mentions an extremely popular creek and people start arguing.

                              I wanted to fish new places after months on the Chattahoochee and starting looking for creeks on every website I could find recommendations for. The DNR website is a blessing. I've fished wildcat, rock, cooper, dicks, and some other rivers in the area. Once spring comes around, I'll pull out the DNR maps and stocking lists, and look for more.

                              I have found maybe one trout fisherman so far, in all my time fishing, who's been willing suggest a location to fish. That's kind of discouraging. For a community that's fairly friendly, trout fisherman are also very suppressing of help when it comes to fishing something new (Maybe people don't take younger fisherman seriously?). Everyone and their mother has """secret""" spots that no ears must hear. Back to the maps!

                              Join a TU group. Go to work helping with a stream restoration. Get information you want.

                              It takes some giving to get what you want sometimes.

                              Most of us help young people and often seek them out. The ones with passion that ask nicely and are willing to help protect the fisheries.

                              Or you can sit at the computer which takes less effort but reaps less reward.

                              Attend the Spring Fling and volunteer for parking, set up, or clean up. I bet you find the Intel you seek.
                              http://www.bigtflyfishing.com

                              Use Promo Code NGTO for 5% off

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Killer Kyle View Post
                                Since Skunked flaunts her salary to the public, I'm sure she has or can donate privately to more than her mandatory annual $40.00 TU fee for the feel goods and the sweet car sticker. I wonder if she could perhaps privately fund some stream enhancement work? With a salary like that, I'll bet she has. But she'll just leave it to the peasant wildlife managers who actually manage the wild to put her bright ideas into action. It's true. DNR employees receive a humble salary. It's not because they cater to the trout elite who look down their noses at those fishing for trout with crickets as immoral humans. It's because many of them consider themselves public servants. It is a life which sacrifices pay for work satisfaction. Satisfaction which even benefits the elite trout fisherman with expensive gear, and yet uninformed opinions about trout and their existence in general.
                                I agree with you on one thing Skunked. More significant change does need to be affected. Unfortunately, we just don't have BLM, Hillary Conventions, Target Stores, rainbow parades, and women's rights marches to attend here in the mountains. Buckman said he would be willing to dress up as a woman's reproductive system to march in the rallies, but unfortunately they are just way too far away from the mountains for him to drive. I hope you can do some good marching in the rallies down there. Since I'm so far away from those important things, all I have to do on the weekends is hit the wild streams. Maybe one day I can get down there and loot the shops or block the streets and be a part of something real. I wish I could be of more help!
                                I agree that you are an immoral person.
                                -skunked

                                Warning: all posts should be assumed to contain sarcasm and misinformation unless stated otherwise. The opinions shared are not necessarily those of the poster.

                                Comment

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