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Rate of Stall - Gear vs. Streamers

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  • Rate of Stall - Gear vs. Streamers

    I’ve been digging deeper into the trophy Bass world the last couple of years, and one exceedingly interesting topic I’ve run across is “Rate of Stall”. This concept originates with the guys from Southern Trout Eaters, who were some of the first to fish magnum glidebaits in the south.

    “Rate of Fall” is obvious, but “Rate of Stall” is a measure of lateral fish ability of a bait. As glidebaits with a wide glide can saturate a piece of cover for negative fish, a straight retrieve can’t stay in the sweet spot.

    If you translate this to current, it’s more the ability to fish a piece of structure as you move past it. Such as drifting a suspending plug down a midriver log. This “Rate of Stall” effect is far easier to achieve with a plug.

    In my streamer fishing I have tended to throw Drunk and Disoderlies and Double Deceivers more than any other, because the bulk and profile of the heads jack knifes and the momentum forces a glide action.

    I think I’m going to throw streamers more this fall for giggles. How have some of you guys approached this suspension problem. Seems as if most presentations favor dead drifting, active, or swing.

    Has anyone tried to solve this puzzle and not snagged a belly of a sinking line in a logjam repeatedly?
    I like em big fat and sloppy.

  • #2
    Sinking lines and flies foam slider heads, stuff like a Swinging D. Losing lines is part and parcel of fishing real structure for real fish.

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    • #3
      Rate of Stall - Gear vs. Streamers

      Deleted to protect the manatees
      Last edited by troutbum69; 10-09-18, 11:52 AM.
      "I don't hate trout fishing, just the people who trout fish."
      -Our friend Nam, but secretly Ret

      "Stop Whining"

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      • #4
        you're talking about the ability to sloooooooowly drift something without it sinking to the bottom, right? and still have some action to it?
        For sure this has applications, and i think it's an interesting discussion!
        Resident Tenkara Nerd

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        • #5
          Originally posted by iso1600 View Post
          you're talking about the ability to sloooooooowly drift something without it sinking to the bottom, right? and still have some action to it?
          For sure this has applications, and i think it's an interesting discussion!
          Indeed, in the greater context of fishing for predators itís the ďstrike zoneĒ conversation really.

          I just find it interesting that in my experience tying and throwing streamers (not a ton, but I do do it yíall), flies with a head construction that allow more lateral movement have gotten crunch the most. Itís a difficult profile to build right though.

          It seems like using the fly line to sink an unweighted streamer and impart action is a constraint of the fly fishing system as a whole when it comes to suspension.
          I like em big fat and sloppy.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by browniez View Post
            I just find it interesting that in my experience tying and throwing streamers (not a ton, but I do do it y’all), flies with a head construction that allow more lateral movement have gotten crunch the most. It’s a difficult profile to build right though.
            Foam slider heads get that result with a lot less effort and guess work.

            It seems like using the fly line to sink an unweighted streamer and impart action is a constraint of the fly fishing system as a whole when it comes to suspension.
            Fly fishing as a "system" was designed to fish adult mayfly imitations on the surface, upstream, to rising trout. Every step you take away from that reduces the efficiency of the operation.

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            • #7
              Kelly Galloup talked extensively about this at his place and does as well in a video talking about building streamers. If you build a head properly it should create movement where the head decelerates faster than the tail, thus adding more movement.
              Dylar's comment on the foam heads is good and now we have other flies evolving with the Dropjaw flies that have 3D printed heads so all sorts of various actions may be possible in the future. I have been pondering how to hybridize flies and plugs more as well. Could you take a body shape of a plug and hybridize it with something like Chocklett's Game Changer but with the use of more natural materials vs hard plastics?
              Another thing Kelly talked extensively about was just like with plugs, learning different retrieves for the different streamers, i.e. Drunk n Disorderly vs Flatliner. He gave me a Flatliner with very specific instructions on how to fish the fly with lots of over acceleration to get the fly to move how it should.
              #JBNavy

              "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
              -Chinese Proverb

              ďAt sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.Ē
              -Norman Maclean

              "We are what we hunt."
              -PH

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              • #8
                Chris Willen considers Flies to be superior to tackle methods for musky in rivers, for what seems like the same reasons you question flies. Unlike most conventional baits, flys have secondary movement. Feathers undulating, deerhair exanding, etc. A streamer, even when stopped gives an impression of a living fish. They also (if neutrally boyant), dont sink or float to the surface upon the pause, giving lazy fish a good kill shot. Because of this you can keep a bait in the strike zone far longer than you can a glide bait. In exchange, it is far harder to cover as much water with a fly.
                Last edited by ferrulewax; 10-10-18, 01:38 PM.
                Jackson Dockery
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ferrulewax View Post
                  Chris Willen considers Flies to be superior to tackle methods for musky in rivers, for what seems like the same reasons ypu question flies. Unlike most conventional baits, flys have secondary movement. Feathers undulating, deerhair exanding, etc. A streamer, even when stopped gives an impression of a living fish. They also (if neutrally boyant), dont sink or float to the sufrface upon the pause, giving lazy fish a good kill shot. Because of this ypu can keep a bait in the strike zone far longer than you can a glide bait. In exchange, it is dar harder to cover as mich water with a fly.
                  Thatís actually a really interesting perspective on it. It dovetails significantly with how I choose hardbaits. I tend to fish baits that have ďlooserĒ internal weighting systems that cause a touch of roll on the pause.

                  Sounds like a big part of my not understanding is my mediocre fly fishing abilities.

                  Hardbaits trade hard dart and walk, and water with a slightly less realistic presentation.
                  I like em big fat and sloppy.

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                  • #10
                    I’ll admit I’m self-taught largely ignorant of the finer points of fly fishing but would it be possible to tie a small lip onto a streamer?
                    Last edited by muddy waters; 10-09-18, 09:29 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Does anybody throw wiggle minnows on the hooch? I'm guessing the efly may have replaced it around here


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      "I don't hate trout fishing, just the people who trout fish."
                      -Our friend Nam, but secretly Ret

                      "Stop Whining"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by muddy waters View Post
                        Iíll admit Iím self-taught largely ignorant of the finer points of fly fishing but would it be possible to tie a small lip onto a streamer?
                        Iíve seen people do it, but never for long.
                        I like em big fat and sloppy.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by browniez View Post
                          Iíve seen people do it, but never for long.
                          Also why the Drunk n' Disorderly's head shape is shaped how it is. Uses deer hair to basically build a lip for the face of the fly. Deer hair is where it's at as long as you can get it neutrally buoyant for a head on a streamer.
                          #JBNavy

                          "Everyday is a new life to a wise man."
                          -Chinese Proverb

                          ďAt sunrise everything is luminous but not clear.Ē
                          -Norman Maclean

                          "We are what we hunt."
                          -PH

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Philhutch80 View Post
                            Deer hair is where it's at as long as you can get it neutrally buoyant for a head on a streamer.
                            Ahh, my nemesis. My next challenge is going to be mastering spun heads.

                            Iím itching to learn more about the technical side of streamer fishing or big trout fishing in general so if anyone ever needs a boat partner let me know. Iíve got a bunch of streamers I still need to test out too.
                            Fly tying instagram @erikclymore

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                            • #15
                              I can't remember the name of these things,but a friend from Florida, gave me some
                              small plastic disc,about the size of a shirt button. You thread them on your leader
                              and then tie on the streamer.Vibra disc or wiggle disc ?
                              I tried the in the river and they worked good .A deciever tied with long saddle hackles
                              looked really good.

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