Morgan Falls Dam - Page 2

franklinZappa · 07-11-12, 10:15 PM

I caught a small 2 lbs striper at Island Ford once.

True story.

It was before I knew anything about the trout in the area, so it wasn't really unbelievable at the time.

I wonder how it is doing.

fontinalis · 07-11-12, 10:53 PM

Great topic, and a tough one in this case.

Environmentally speaking (excluding safety and other concerns here), dams are usually removed to restore rivers to a more natural condition (flow, temperature, habitat, native fish populations, etc.).

I'm all for freeing rivers, and dam removal here would probably help restore certain aspects of habitat, flow regime and sediment dynamics over some distance (anyone aware of any modeling on Morgan Falls dam removal)?

But it gets very interesting to me when you consider temperature.

The Hooch was naturally a "warmwater" Piedmont river in what is now the metro ATL area. Oddly enough, from a temperature standpoint, I'd guess the Hooch downstream of Morgan Falls is probably closer to its natural state now (warmer water like a Piedmont river) than it would be if MF dam was removed and the artificial coldwater regime extended even farther downstream, assuming this would happen (as ccorneli also mentions).

In this case stripers and other native migratory fish would get a relatively short extension of XX miles (exact distance?) before they bang their heads into Buford Dam, which we all know isn't going anywhere any time soon. And that's only if they find the new habitat suitable.

What about the effects on other native warmwater fish such as shoal bass? Would the overall cooler temperatures push them farther downstream? How far? Other native non-game fish?

Of course this is just considering temperature; there are many other factors that need to be considered.

Aardvark · 07-11-12, 10:54 PM

If Morgan Falls Dam was removed, would all of that silt start washing down to West Point all at once, or would the river cut a channel and leave the rest as dry land that would either wash away more slowly or remain in place?

ocerg · 07-12-12, 08:57 AM

I read a striper study on the Etowah and Coosa rivers. They studied the stomach contents of the fish and found Striped bass eat 93% - 96% shad. The rest of the stomach contents were distributed between bass, bream, and crappie, but the vast majority of what was eaten was shad.

I have seen the videos of striped bass eating trout hooked as bait and I have had a striped bass grab a 1 pound bass which I was reeling in and take it for a ride, but mostly (according to the study I read) they mostly eat shad.

I am not aware of if shad live on the hootch so this may be null and void.

Windknot · 07-12-12, 09:07 AM

Regarding the MF silt being harvested - according to the family in that business, it would not be practical to harvest. (Gray Ghost was a friend of that family, and asked them very direct questions about silt recovery.)

Regarding the depth of Bull Sluice - it has been many years since I had a boat w/depth finder on the lake, but basically it was a giant mud flat, with an incredibly deep and narrow channel leading into the dam's penstock. It showed as an abrupt drop from a few feet to 70'+.

flyg · 07-12-12, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

If Morgan Falls Dam was removed, would all of that silt start washing down to West Point all at once, or would the river cut a channel and leave the rest as dry land that would either wash away more slowly or remain in place?

This is one of the key questions with any dam removal. In the Elwha system, before any demolition took place, the question was modeled by lowering the lake behind Glines Canyon very quickly (over the course of several days). It was found that the river quickly carved a deep channel through the sediments, leaving most of the deposits in place. And that has been the case through the removal of the Glines and Elwha dams to this point. It is expected that a lot of this stuff will shift down over the next handful of years, with flood events etc. Those sediments are different, much coarser, than what is behind Morgan Falls. Also, managers want some sediment deposition downstream of the dams in that system (within reason) to provide spawning substrate for salmonids and also to naturally build a breakwater at the river's mouth, which has been eroding since the dams were built 100 years ago. I don't expect any sediment would be desirable in the Hooch downstream of MF (just guessing). However, with Buford just upstream of MF, there would be good control of flows which would help to mitigate things.

I think removal of Morgan Falls is pure fantasy, but it is fun to talk about. The Hooch Columbus dams and the 12-Mile Creek dams in SC are good examples of dam removals that will help us evaluate how things will work locally. If these projects turn out well, maybe some big dams could be next. Personally, I'd vote to remove the Barnett Shoals Dam on the Oconee.

G

arctic charles · 07-12-12, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccorneli

MF impoundment, even without the siltation, is not deep enough to create a cold water fishery down stream. The removal of the dam would simply extend the cold water fishery established by Buford Dam.

wasn't thinking; you are correct.

This is a moot point, it will never happen!

Chupacabra · 07-12-12, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arctic charles

I hadn't thought about the stripers and I have to think it would wreak havoc on the trout population.

The thought of this makes me happy in the pants.

Jakal03 · 07-12-12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

The thought of this makes me happy in the pants.

jeffg · 07-12-12, 01:28 PM

CARP United would have to fight the renewal as it would result in prime flats being ruined......... and the rainbow/brown trout is about as native as the carp...

On a serious note, friend has been hired/tasked with the study of dam removal due to structural integrity a few years ago. So the idea has been floated above our pay grades...

But the biggest issue, as stated by others is the silt. As anyone who fishes above the dam knows, the silt has been increasing in massive volumes. and Not getting all environmental on everyone, but all the construction in the upper watershed has led to lots of that silting.

And this is non scientific, but the massive flood we had a few years back really added alot to narrowing down the channel above the dam.. just an observation.

But everytime I am directly below the dam, and water is coming thru the cracks in the dam, one has to wonder about the structural integrity.

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07-11-12, 10:15 PM	#11
franklinZappa Native Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,013	I caught a small 2 lbs striper at Island Ford once. True story. It was before I knew anything about the trout in the area, so it wasn't really unbelievable at the time. I wonder how it is doing.

07-11-12, 10:53 PM	#12
fontinalis Native Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 456	Great topic, and a tough one in this case. Environmentally speaking (excluding safety and other concerns here), dams are usually removed to restore rivers to a more natural condition (flow, temperature, habitat, native fish populations, etc.). I'm all for freeing rivers, and dam removal here would probably help restore certain aspects of habitat, flow regime and sediment dynamics over some distance (anyone aware of any modeling on Morgan Falls dam removal)? But it gets very interesting to me when you consider temperature. The Hooch was naturally a "warmwater" Piedmont river in what is now the metro ATL area. Oddly enough, from a temperature standpoint, I'd guess the Hooch downstream of Morgan Falls is probably closer to its natural state now (warmer water like a Piedmont river) than it would be if MF dam was removed and the artificial coldwater regime extended even farther downstream, assuming this would happen (as ccorneli also mentions). In this case stripers and other native migratory fish would get a relatively short extension of XX miles (exact distance?) before they bang their heads into Buford Dam, which we all know isn't going anywhere any time soon. And that's only if they find the new habitat suitable. What about the effects on other native warmwater fish such as shoal bass? Would the overall cooler temperatures push them farther downstream? How far? Other native non-game fish? Of course this is just considering temperature; there are many other factors that need to be considered.

07-11-12, 10:54 PM	#13
Aardvark Native Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 194	If Morgan Falls Dam was removed, would all of that silt start washing down to West Point all at once, or would the river cut a channel and leave the rest as dry land that would either wash away more slowly or remain in place?

07-12-12, 08:57 AM	#14
ocerg Native Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 77	I read a striper study on the Etowah and Coosa rivers. They studied the stomach contents of the fish and found Striped bass eat 93% - 96% shad. The rest of the stomach contents were distributed between bass, bream, and crappie, but the vast majority of what was eaten was shad. I have seen the videos of striped bass eating trout hooked as bait and I have had a striped bass grab a 1 pound bass which I was reeling in and take it for a ride, but mostly (according to the study I read) they mostly eat shad. I am not aware of if shad live on the hootch so this may be null and void.

07-12-12, 09:07 AM	#15
Windknot Director, Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Dacula, GA Posts: 12,595	Regarding the MF silt being harvested - according to the family in that business, it would not be practical to harvest. (Gray Ghost was a friend of that family, and asked them very direct questions about silt recovery.) Regarding the depth of Bull Sluice - it has been many years since I had a boat w/depth finder on the lake, but basically it was a giant mud flat, with an incredibly deep and narrow channel leading into the dam's penstock. It showed as an abrupt drop from a few feet to 70'+.

07-12-12, 01:28 PM	#20
jeffg Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: LRD Posts: 2,281	CARP United would have to fight the renewal as it would result in prime flats being ruined......... and the rainbow/brown trout is about as native as the carp... On a serious note, friend has been hired/tasked with the study of dam removal due to structural integrity a few years ago. So the idea has been floated above our pay grades... But the biggest issue, as stated by others is the silt. As anyone who fishes above the dam knows, the silt has been increasing in massive volumes. and Not getting all environmental on everyone, but all the construction in the upper watershed has led to lots of that silting. And this is non scientific, but the massive flood we had a few years back really added alot to narrowing down the channel above the dam.. just an observation. But everytime I am directly below the dam, and water is coming thru the cracks in the dam, one has to wonder about the structural integrity.