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Old 11-13-17, 03:42 PM   #31
Jason
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Best thing to do is join your local TU chapter and pay no attention to the author of this writing. Where did you dig this up from @Jason?
I have read the book and found this interview recently. Any chance you listened to it or read it?

Why ignore a person who has spent a twenty year career studying how rivers, creeks, and streams function over time?
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Old 11-13-17, 09:34 PM   #32
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I forgot about this post. Makes me want to go fish a DH somewhere...
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Old 11-14-17, 09:39 AM   #33
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I have read the book and found this interview recently. Any chance you listened to it or read it?

Why ignore a person who has spent a twenty year career studying how rivers, creeks, and streams function over time?
I read some notes and listened to the interview. I get what he is saying but I feel his view is a bit one sided and jaded. It is not a holistic view but rather specifically honing in on one cog of the wheel. Then again, the other part not being mentioned is the arrogance of man believing we can control nature. Where did you find the book at btw, I have not looked as of yet. Thanks!
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Old 11-14-17, 06:47 PM   #34
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I read some notes and listened to the interview. I get what he is saying but I feel his view is a bit one sided and jaded. It is not a holistic view but rather specifically honing in on one cog of the wheel. Then again, the other part not being mentioned is the arrogance of man believing we can control nature. Where did you find the book at btw, I have not looked as of yet. Thanks!
No it’s not a holistic view. However, I do think he starts in the right place, with the waters and not the with the fisherman.

Man thinking they can control nature has always been my issue with “stream improvement” projects. Generally when we try to control we end up screwing up.

Ordered it from B&N or Amazon.
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Old 11-14-17, 08:45 PM   #35
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The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
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Old 11-15-17, 10:04 AM   #36
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No it’s not a holistic view. However, I do think he starts in the right place, with the waters and not the with the fisherman.

Man thinking they can control nature has always been my issue with “stream improvement” projects. Generally when we try to control we end up screwing up.

Ordered it from B&N or Amazon.
I agree with you Jason. Starting with the water is the key. Man thinking he has control over nature is our greatest downfall unfortunately. The Hooch is a great example of that and then humans giving up (squarely pointing at Morgan Falls and the Southern Company).

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The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
Swampy, I am right there with you. He does not understand that there are many people that use that fish excrement as fertilizer for their gardens or even have aquaponic set ups where the fish excrement supplies the entire nutrient needs for the plants.
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Old 11-15-17, 10:12 AM   #37
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I agree with you Jason. Starting with the water is the key. Man thinking he has control over nature is our greatest downfall unfortunately. The Hooch is a great example of that and then humans giving up (squarely pointing at Morgan Falls and the Southern Company).



Swampy, I am right there with you. He does not understand that there are many people that use that fish excrement as fertilizer for their gardens or even have aquaponic set ups where the fish excrement supplies the entire nutrient needs for the plants.
Can't tell you how many times I've poured koi poop into some older ladies garden. Best fertilizer around.

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Old 11-15-17, 11:11 AM   #38
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I said my piece when this post popped up the first time. The science hasn't changed since then.
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Old 11-15-17, 11:33 AM   #39
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The author lost me at the point of complaining about "fish excrement" being released into rivers from hatcheries. Seriously, does he believe that fish exit the water to "go potty"???

Maybe he made some good points after that statement, but I lost all faith in the article at that point.
Reality check: Fish hatcheries concentrate fish poop into a single outfall, and they also hold many,many more fish than a river does naturally. So, even way downstream, there is much more fish poop in the water in a river that has a hatchery than one that does not.

This does not even get into the issue of disease leaving the hatchery, which is now being recognized as a huge problem even with salmon farms, which are generally floating in the open waters of the ocean and bays.

The Law of Unintended Consequences is very strong in the aquaculture business, whether a facility is run for fun or profit.

FM
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Old 11-15-17, 02:10 PM   #40
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And... once again fishmonger straightens me out. Good point, Mark. I hadn't thought about the concentration factor.
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If you have difficulty understanding the post above, read it out loud and it should make sense. This NGTO member is known for his poor hill-billy upbringing and his affinity for all things from Louisiana (particularly if it relates to LSU). It makes for a poor mix of accents and much difficulty in translation. He was doing well for so long, but now seems to have regressed.
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