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Old 10-08-18, 08:16 PM   #1
browniez
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Default Rate of Stall - Gear vs. Streamers

I’ve been digging deeper into the trophy Bass world the last couple of years, and one exceedingly interesting topic I’ve run across is “Rate of Stall”. This concept originates with the guys from Southern Trout Eaters, who were some of the first to fish magnum glidebaits in the south.

“Rate of Fall” is obvious, but “Rate of Stall” is a measure of lateral fish ability of a bait. As glidebaits with a wide glide can saturate a piece of cover for negative fish, a straight retrieve can’t stay in the sweet spot.

If you translate this to current, it’s more the ability to fish a piece of structure as you move past it. Such as drifting a suspending plug down a midriver log. This “Rate of Stall” effect is far easier to achieve with a plug.

In my streamer fishing I have tended to throw Drunk and Disoderlies and Double Deceivers more than any other, because the bulk and profile of the heads jack knifes and the momentum forces a glide action.

I think I’m going to throw streamers more this fall for giggles. How have some of you guys approached this suspension problem. Seems as if most presentations favor dead drifting, active, or swing.

Has anyone tried to solve this puzzle and not snagged a belly of a sinking line in a logjam repeatedly?
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Old 10-08-18, 10:33 PM   #2
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Sinking lines and flies foam slider heads, stuff like a Swinging D. Losing lines is part and parcel of fishing real structure for real fish.
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Old 10-09-18, 03:53 AM   #3
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Default Rate of Stall - Gear vs. Streamers

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Old 10-09-18, 10:07 AM   #4
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you're talking about the ability to sloooooooowly drift something without it sinking to the bottom, right? and still have some action to it?
For sure this has applications, and i think it's an interesting discussion!
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Old 10-09-18, 11:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iso1600 View Post
you're talking about the ability to sloooooooowly drift something without it sinking to the bottom, right? and still have some action to it?
For sure this has applications, and i think it's an interesting discussion!
Indeed, in the greater context of fishing for predators it’s the “strike zone” conversation really.

I just find it interesting that in my experience tying and throwing streamers (not a ton, but I do do it y’all), flies with a head construction that allow more lateral movement have gotten crunch the most. It’s a difficult profile to build right though.

It seems like using the fly line to sink an unweighted streamer and impart action is a constraint of the fly fishing system as a whole when it comes to suspension.
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Old 10-09-18, 11:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browniez View Post
I just find it interesting that in my experience tying and throwing streamers (not a ton, but I do do it y’all), flies with a head construction that allow more lateral movement have gotten crunch the most. It’s a difficult profile to build right though.
Foam slider heads get that result with a lot less effort and guess work.

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It seems like using the fly line to sink an unweighted streamer and impart action is a constraint of the fly fishing system as a whole when it comes to suspension.
Fly fishing as a "system" was designed to fish adult mayfly imitations on the surface, upstream, to rising trout. Every step you take away from that reduces the efficiency of the operation.
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Old 10-09-18, 12:43 PM   #7
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Kelly Galloup talked extensively about this at his place and does as well in a video talking about building streamers. If you build a head properly it should create movement where the head decelerates faster than the tail, thus adding more movement.
Dylar's comment on the foam heads is good and now we have other flies evolving with the Dropjaw flies that have 3D printed heads so all sorts of various actions may be possible in the future. I have been pondering how to hybridize flies and plugs more as well. Could you take a body shape of a plug and hybridize it with something like Chocklett's Game Changer but with the use of more natural materials vs hard plastics?
Another thing Kelly talked extensively about was just like with plugs, learning different retrieves for the different streamers, i.e. Drunk n Disorderly vs Flatliner. He gave me a Flatliner with very specific instructions on how to fish the fly with lots of over acceleration to get the fly to move how it should.
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Old 10-09-18, 03:25 PM   #8
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Chris Willen considers Flies to be superior to tackle methods for musky in rivers, for what seems like the same reasons you question flies. Unlike most conventional baits, flys have secondary movement. Feathers undulating, deerhair exanding, etc. A streamer, even when stopped gives an impression of a living fish. They also (if neutrally boyant), dont sink or float to the surface upon the pause, giving lazy fish a good kill shot. Because of this you can keep a bait in the strike zone far longer than you can a glide bait. In exchange, it is far harder to cover as much water with a fly.
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Old 10-09-18, 04:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ferrulewax View Post
Chris Willen considers Flies to be superior to tackle methods for musky in rivers, for what seems like the same reasons ypu question flies. Unlike most conventional baits, flys have secondary movement. Feathers undulating, deerhair exanding, etc. A streamer, even when stopped gives an impression of a living fish. They also (if neutrally boyant), dont sink or float to the sufrface upon the pause, giving lazy fish a good kill shot. Because of this ypu can keep a bait in the strike zone far longer than you can a glide bait. In exchange, it is dar harder to cover as mich water with a fly.
That’s actually a really interesting perspective on it. It dovetails significantly with how I choose hardbaits. I tend to fish baits that have “looser” internal weighting systems that cause a touch of roll on the pause.

Sounds like a big part of my not understanding is my mediocre fly fishing abilities.

Hardbaits trade hard dart and walk, and water with a slightly less realistic presentation.
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Old 10-09-18, 04:24 PM   #10
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I’ll admit I’m self-taught largely ignorant of the finer points of fly fishing but would it be possible to tie a small lip onto a streamer?

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