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Old 11-28-17, 01:19 PM   #11
ChaChung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikclymore View Post
Im far from 30í casts. Right now I typically just make drifts that are slightly longer than I would tight lining.
Hereís the setup Iíve been messing with lately. I like how I can easily remove the dry and get right back to nymphing without redoing anything. Iíve yet to catch anything on the dry to speak to how well the backing barrel holds up to a fish on the dry(partly because Iím using a gigantic fly to suspend my nymphs), but I reckon weíll cross that bridge when we get there.
https://troutbitten.com/2017/06/21/slidable-dry-dro https://imageshack.com/i/pnrU0Q9Sj pper-system/

Itís a great technique to have in your arsenal when the wind picks up all of the sudden and you find tight lining a bit challenging.

That's pretty **** awesome. I always thought it would be so nice to be able to move the dry fly up and down while dry-dropping. I will try that out sometime soon. Thanks!
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Old 11-28-17, 03:44 PM   #12
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Nice, Charles. Glad you had some luck there. I'd really like to explore down river more but I just don't get up there that often.
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Old 11-28-17, 04:10 PM   #13
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Whoa, Erik. You figured out Splatek's super secret quick depth adjusting system that he always talks about but tells no one. Well done.
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Old 11-28-17, 04:49 PM   #14
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I actually showed up at settles a week or so back and ran into him. I told him I was trying out this new method and he said he was too. Turns out we were both expirementing with the same rig.
His was slightly different. I can’t remember how he said he tweaked it though.
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Old 11-28-17, 05:38 PM   #15
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It interests me that Settles has the lowest growth rate of brown trout studied on the hooch, with the highest percentage rate of browns. It was a significant difference as well. Don't quote me but I think the literature showed that browns at Settles grow at a rate of only 50 to 60 percent of other areas.

I think this lends some support to the fact the river can only biomass given other static factors.

I'm almost wondering if we REALLY want a top end fishery, we should KEEP some trout. As backwards as that sounds.

If you've ever seen the shocking done, it will absolutely blow your freaking mind how many are there.
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Old 11-28-17, 07:58 PM   #16
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It interests me that Settles has the lowest growth rate of brown trout studied on the hooch, with the highest percentage rate of browns. It was a significant difference as well. Don't quote me but I think the literature showed that browns at Settles grow at a rate of only 50 to 60 percent of other areas.

I think this lends some support to the fact the river can only biomass given other static factors.

I'm almost wondering if we REALLY want a top end fishery, we should KEEP some trout. As backwards as that sounds.

If you've ever seen the shocking done, it will absolutely blow your freaking mind how many are there.
Interesting thought.

I think I read an article in the TU magazine regarding the selective removal of fish to help keep and sustain populations of healthy, wild fish. But I wonder if we already have a good enough number of fish being taken out of the system by catch and keep fishermen.... it would be a good thing to study.
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Old 11-28-17, 08:36 PM   #17
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Carrying capacity is a real thing.



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Old 11-28-17, 09:29 PM   #18
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Carrying capacity is a real thing.



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Indeed it is. I know you are of a scientific mindset, and we aren't biologists, but we can make some reasonable conclusions.

I have been lucky enough to have a fairly running dialogue with people who have vested interest in our fishery. From commercial, government, and citizen perspectives.

IMHO a protected slot limit makes ALOT of sense. Protect the prime 16 to 22 inch fish that have shown genetic predisposition to A). Turn piscvorious & B). Have high end genetic size potential.

Maybe we would be rewarded if that was given more awareness and enforcement, rather than just artificial only.

Harvest is appropriate, it's what we are designed to do. SUSTAINABLE and appropriate harvest is what seems to be hard to quantify.

Anecdotally, my longtime at the White River has said that after they instituted a minimum size restriction of 24", there became a "logjam" at that size. Fewer fish have graduated to a larger top end size.

It just seems to be a weak spot in the scientific research of salmonids, the impact of slot limits and transitional forage. I wish I had the expertise and funding to carry out studies, but I will be content with reading what's published.
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Old 11-28-17, 10:21 PM   #19
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Indeed it is. I know you are of a scientific mindset, and we aren't biologists, but we can make some reasonable conclusions.

I have been lucky enough to have a fairly running dialogue with people who have vested interest in our fishery. From commercial, government, and citizen perspectives.

IMHO a protected slot limit makes ALOT of sense. Protect the prime 16 to 22 inch fish that have shown genetic predisposition to A). Turn piscvorious & B). Have high end genetic size potential.

Maybe we would be rewarded if that was given more awareness and enforcement, rather than just artificial only.

Harvest is appropriate, it's what we are designed to do. SUSTAINABLE and appropriate harvest is what seems to be hard to quantify.

Anecdotally, my longtime at the White River has said that after they instituted a minimum size restriction of 24", there became a "logjam" at that size. Fewer fish have graduated to a larger top end size.

It just seems to be a weak spot in the scientific research of salmonids, the impact of slot limits and transitional forage. I wish I had the expertise and funding to carry out studies, but I will be content with reading what's published.
Yeah man, I hear all that; but being so new to this trout/salmonid thing and cold water sustainability I don't feel qualified to comment with any authority. That being said I am very interested and vested in helping the river become the best it can become and after catching that near 18"-er the other day, knowing that there are more in there, bigger in there... golly, gets me all jazzed up!
I think one of the, if not the hardest challenge to tackle is NOT the science, but the ultimate enforcement of any regulations. I mean, the whole artificial only thing seems to be a "suggestion" at best at settles and that's the only place I can comment on confidently.

I guess the science would have to present data on what would be the ideal/optimal slot limit, as well as whether the habitat could support a growth in numbers of those frequency dependent specimens that get so large to thrive... again, knowing nothing about fisheries biologists. I would love to chat with some of the folks that you chat with and some students from the college volunteering (if possible) on projects like this. If there was a way in which I could put a psychological science twist on this, I am sure I could get a few co-eds to do something beside jump off the bridge.
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Old 11-28-17, 11:11 PM   #20
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Yeah man, I hear all that; but being so new to this trout/salmonid thing and cold water sustainability I don't feel qualified to comment with any authority. That being said I am very interested and vested in helping the river become the best it can become and after catching that near 18"-er the other day, knowing that there are more in there, bigger in there... golly, gets me all jazzed up!
I think one of the, if not the hardest challenge to tackle is NOT the science, but the ultimate enforcement of any regulations. I mean, the whole artificial only thing seems to be a "suggestion" at best at settles and that's the only place I can comment on confidently.

I guess the science would have to present data on what would be the ideal/optimal slot limit, as well as whether the habitat could support a growth in numbers of those frequency dependent specimens that get so large to thrive... again, knowing nothing about fisheries biologists. I would love to chat with some of the folks that you chat with and some students from the college volunteering (if possible) on projects like this. If there was a way in which I could put a psychological science twist on this, I am sure I could get a few co-eds to do something beside jump off the bridge.
+1 on the enforcement of regulations. Whether we like it or not, humans are one of the top, if not THE top impactors of freshwater ecosystems. Also,
I would love to volunteer/help on a study like this, though not extremely related, two years as a research assistant in a Microbiology lab at the University might help.

Quote:
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Carrying capacity is a real thing.
+1, and there are some reasonable ways of increasing Population size, and therefore the capacity to hold larger numbers of lunker trout. This conversation will actually help me study for my upcoming Final in my Upper Division Ecology class haha.

The basic ecological equation assuming logistic growth

dN/dt = rN [(K-N)/(K)]

dN/dt = the population growth rate over time
r = the intrinsic growth rate, basically how quickly the population grows per individual already in the population
N = the current population number
K = the carrying capacity

By increasing the carrying capacity and the intrinsic growth rate we can increase the number of trout within our river and therefore ability to have more trout in the "lunker" level. But it is easier said than done... We could increase habitat size (not very feasible at Settles), decrease interspecific and intraspecific competition of brown trout between other species and with themselves respectively (not very feasible), and other such factors.

In spite of this we CAN focus on increasing the reproductive efficiency of brown trout to increase the intrinsic growth rate (r) and decrease the effect of human pollutants and other factors to increase both carrying capacity (K) and intrinsic growth (r). This is feasible and can be done by reducing streamside erosion/silting to allow for more effective reproductive success. We could also decrease fertilizer/sewage runoff from feeder creeks to maintain a healthier and more viable population. In brief, a higher carrying capacity and intrinsic growth rate would help not only more fish find themselves on the end of your line, but allow them the chance to sustain a larger "lunker' age group as well.

What is also relevant to a catch and keep fishery like the upper TW is increasing the MSY (Maximum Sustainable Yield), which basically means the point at which you can catch fish and not effect the population overall. This is derived from the logistic growth curve stated before and would be the halfway point of the curve on a graph. More simply, the higher the carrying capacity due to logistic growth, there is less impact due to a trout being harvested.

But like anything related to Ecology, the complex interconnectivity of a freshwater ecosystem would result in some foreseeable and unforeseeable consequences. One that comes to mind is the impact on other fish species within the river due to brown trout competitive advantages, and therefore this effect on other species within the river.

Obviously, more study is needed to see the true condition of the river and its brown trout population. I understand these are idealized equations/scenarios and the real situation is much more complex. Additionally, I comprehend that we are talking about larger trout than just population numbers, but hey, if there are more trout, then you are more likely to catch one .

Whew that was a long post.
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