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Old 12-20-17, 10:14 AM   #21
huntfish
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^^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE!!! @fishndoc you nailed it! 16-18” browns, bows and brookies that were healthy and vibrant!!! I have been trying to look online in the AJC archives, the old Roswell Neighbor and Marietta Daily Journal archives- I can’t seem to find ANY articles about the Hooch from the 80’s or 90’s. I would love to be able to find those articles and pics from the newspapers as well as magazines that would wax poetic about the Chattahoochee and post them here so people could at least see what this river was capable of as I feel there is very little documented history available to any of us.
Talk to Bill Couch or Chris Scalley. It was a put and take fisheries. Only in the last 10-15 years has it really become a true trout stream.

Last edited by huntfish; 12-20-17 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-20-17, 10:38 AM   #22
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I donít want to remove Morgan Falls as thatís unrealistic. Itís something we have to live with. Saying that, you cannot deny that better care could be taken of that part of the river. You have a quality fishery in parts that with some effort could be turned into a trophy stream(for trout, striper and shoal bass). Water temps arenít viable because of thermal pollution along with siltation/ sedimentation. Currently there is no plan in place to help the siltation issue. How is that helping the DH for example? How many caddis hatches are seen in the DH now? The amount of potential available bio mass is better in the DH than the upper section but we have zero significant hatches now that formerly were abundant.
I enjoy what We have but am frustrated by the degradation that has occurred in 33yrs of fishing the river. I am allowed to voice that opinion but Iím not gonna say something without a plan of action or recourse for thinking about that first.
The article talks about catching trout in not only an urban environment but specifically through downtown Denver in an area that was thought of similarly as our DH is now; that trout cannot survive there. The local fishermen took the onus onto themselves to become the change for the river. Would I like to see the lower part of the river back as a trout stream? Juryís out as thereís not enough science out there to go one way or another whether that is possible despite what everyone says on here.
First, the history of the Hooch as a trout stream is short and didn't exist until the construction of Buford Dam. It was a warm water fisheries that has been managed to become both a cold and warm water fisheries.

The DH section was marginal prior to the establishment of DH as it's too warm for a cold water fisheries. DNR understood that as that when they started, just like Smiths and Amicalola. All are basically a put and take fisheries, just like designed. Now out west, they can maintain DH water year round, not really feasible here except for the tailwater section below Buford Dam. There have been many discussions/efforts to make a portion of the Hooch year round DH and a few start ups attempts.

If you notice in the article, it does mention temps and that it only exceeded a few times during the summer. Down here, it would be it was only acceptable a few times during the summer. That's the issue in the DH portion. You also have an oxygenation issue during the summer in the DH portion unlike at the dam where that was corrected about 10 years ago. As for biomass, the pH is still off and that's an issue throughout the river and the SEUS. With that said, an year round DH could possibly be feasible in the upper portion and one that I have worked with others with DNR in attempt to get it's designation.

As for siltation. The flushing of the river with discharges does contribute but the major issue is run on from construction sites and discharges from industries. That's not DNR, but EPD. The riverkeeper does an outstanding job in notifying and forcing response but its' hard to be there 100%.

The Hooch is a fantastic fisheries and DNR has done an excellent job managing it. The upper portion is an excellent trout stream and management has helped create a true trophy fishery as demonstrated by the increase of trophy size browns. The lower portion (DH) is an excellent warm water fisheries. Wait till late June/July and take your 8/9# up to Morgan Falls. The stripers are there in outstanding numbers.
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Old 12-20-17, 07:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
I donít want to remove Morgan Falls as thatís unrealistic. Itís something we have to live with. Saying that, you cannot deny that better care could be taken of that part of the river. You have a quality fishery in parts that with some effort could be turned into a trophy stream(for trout, striper and shoal bass). Water temps arenít viable because of thermal pollution along with siltation/ sedimentation. Currently there is no plan in place to help the siltation issue. How is that helping the DH for example? How many caddis hatches are seen in the DH now? The amount of potential available bio mass is better in the DH than the upper section but we have zero significant hatches now that formerly were abundant.
I enjoy what We have but am frustrated by the degradation that has occurred in 33yrs of fishing the river. I am allowed to voice that opinion but Iím not gonna say something without a plan of action or recourse for thinking about that first.
The article talks about catching trout in not only an urban environment but specifically through downtown Denver in an area that was thought of similarly as our DH is now; that trout cannot survive there. The local fishermen took the onus onto themselves to become the change for the river. Would I like to see the lower part of the river back as a trout stream? Juryís out as thereís not enough science out there to go one way or another whether that is possible despite what everyone says on here.
Unrealistic comparison. Denver sits at 5000'+. Totally different sitch temp wise.
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Old 12-21-17, 11:05 AM   #24
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Unrealistic comparison. Denver sits at 5000'+. Totally different sitch temp wise.
Look at the data Dylar. They had a similar number of days where stream temps went into a danger threshhold that the section of river below Morgan Falls has yearly. It is oddly similar.
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Old 12-21-17, 02:18 PM   #25
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Look at the data Dylar. They had a similar number of days where stream temps went into a danger threshhold that the section of river below Morgan Falls has yearly. It is oddly similar.
"Two years ago, the chapter installed six hourly temperature sensors over this 26 miles of water using the “Trout Unlimited Stream Monitoring” program suggestions. The sensor data surprisingly showed the river maintaining temperatures conducive to trout survival, even during the heat of summer. While temps did spike during midday for a few hours, the trout survived by having access to stretches offering shade, deep pools and other trout-friendly habitat. Denver TU has created its own habitat structures along the river that also give trout a fighting chance."

http://www.denvertu.org/south-platte...045.1513600343

Chattahoochee last year during summer

https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/...ate=2017-09-01
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Old 12-21-17, 03:13 PM   #26
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"Two years ago, the chapter installed six hourly temperature sensors over this 26 miles of water using the “Trout Unlimited Stream Monitoring” program suggestions. The sensor data surprisingly showed the river maintaining temperatures conducive to trout survival, even during the heat of summer. While temps did spike during midday for a few hours, the trout survived by having access to stretches offering shade, deep pools and other trout-friendly habitat. Denver TU has created its own habitat structures along the river that also give trout a fighting chance."

http://www.denvertu.org/south-platte...045.1513600343

Chattahoochee last year during summer

https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/...ate=2017-09-01
Look at the 2016 data, no recorded temps above 78 degrees the entire year. 2016 was hot, 2017 was cooler than average. We probably should look at each summer going back for the past decade though.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis...ate=2016-09-01

2015 follows the same trends, no days over 78 degrees registered. https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis...ate=2015-09-01

Not to beat a dead horse but I will be dammed if there is no corellation between silt being the main stress factor on this section of river.
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Old 12-21-17, 07:48 PM   #27
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Look at the data Dylar. They had a similar number of days where stream temps went into a danger threshhold that the section of river below Morgan Falls has yearly. It is oddly similar.
Look at the data again. The average summer temps in the South Platte through Denver were around 67 degrees. The lower Chattahoochee tailwater basically never got below 70 degrees at all between Memorial Day and Labor Day. The lower Hooch is significantly warmer than the French Broad in Asheville, which is purely a bass fishery. There is no way you can seriously compare it to a fishery at 5000 feet, and the data bears that out.
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Old 12-22-17, 12:07 AM   #28
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"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable." - Mark Twain

It's okay for y'all to agree to disagree. Both parties have stated their viewpoints and if this continues it'll get redundant. I will add that I enjoyed reading this post though.
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Old 12-22-17, 04:58 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
^^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE!!! @fishndoc you nailed it! 16-18Ē browns, bows and brookies that were healthy and vibrant!!! I have been trying to look online in the AJC archives, the old Roswell Neighbor and Marietta Daily Journal archives- I canít seem to find ANY articles about the Hooch from the 80ís or 90ís. I would love to be able to find those articles and pics from the newspapers as well as magazines that would wax poetic about the Chattahoochee and post them here so people could at least see what this river was capable of as I feel there is very little documented history available to any of us.
.
Good thing drifter keeps a scrap book, he posted these a few years back.
Phil with your paid subscription to that rag, you can probably look up the whole thing, thereís a date. Or go to a Fulton county library they probably still have it archived on microfilm Somewheres.









The guy in the picture then became a breakdancer on SNL and was in that movie Horrible Bosses.
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Old 12-22-17, 06:20 AM   #30
huntfish
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Look at the 2016 data, no recorded temps above 78 degrees the entire year. 2016 was hot, 2017 was cooler than average. We probably should look at each summer going back for the past decade though.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis...ate=2016-09-01

2015 follows the same trends, no days over 78 degrees registered. https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis...ate=2015-09-01

Not to beat a dead horse but I will be dammed if there is no corellation between silt being the main stress factor on this section of river.
A sustained temperature above 70 degrees for 3 months is not trout habitat.

You need to look at TSS and DO. You'll see the correlation.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...s/fisc2001.pdf

Last edited by huntfish; 12-22-17 at 07:40 AM.
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