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Old 02-01-18, 10:01 AM   #21
NetBoy
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I think there's a lot more pressure at Paces. Seems like more people are getting into fly fishing and Paces is convenient and has plenty of wadeable water.

But someone is making the decision to stock less at Paces and more at Smiths and Ami. Smiths has big healthy rainbows and brook trout which I have never seen here before.
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Old 02-01-18, 10:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by NetBoy View Post
I think there's a lot more pressure at Paces. Seems like more people are getting into fly fishing and Paces is convenient and has plenty of wadeable water.

But someone is making the decision to stock less at Paces and more at Smiths and Ami. Smiths has big healthy rainbows and brook trout which I have never seen here before.
Stock less at paces? You sure it's not your fellow fishermen stomping through the runs and putting the fish down? Combined, of course, with the water temps, bird predation, etc.
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Old 02-01-18, 10:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetBoy View Post
I think there's a lot more pressure at Paces. Seems like more people are getting into fly fishing and Paces is convenient and has plenty of wadeable water.

But someone is making the decision to stock less at Paces and more at Smiths and Ami. Smiths has big healthy rainbows and brook trout which I have never seen here before.
The fish are there as already stated. You want a healthy bow, look at the one in my pic, came from paces. I was there when the most recent fish were put in and it's not near the boat ramp I'll just say that. Get out of the comfort zone and find some fish, they are waiting for you.

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Old 02-01-18, 01:21 PM   #24
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Make the DH great again
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Old 02-01-18, 03:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
Reasons that I think the DH trout fishing is poor compared to 10 years ago, in order:

1. Reduction in number of trout stocked. This is the main reason. I think youíre looking at a 5-10 fold reduction compared to the mid 2000s

2. Water temps and quality.

3. The big flood as mentioned above and itís affects.

4. Cormorants. I used to see one in a rarity, now Iíve seen flicks of 30-40 that seem to follow the stocking truck. These fellas can eat some trout.

5. Food available to trout due to a variety of environmental reasons.

6. Land development runoffís causing temp and pollution spikes.

1000. Stripers. These fish simply are not in the winter DH in a quantity and metabolism state high enough to greatly affect trout numbers. The last few weeks the river water temps were in the 30s. The stripes are all in West Point where the temps are high 40s, eating shad in great abundance, with no desire to travel 80 mile to ice cold water to look for trout. I have caught hundreds of stripers and hundred of trout in this drainage basin over the last 15 years, and have no first hand accounts of them destroying trout in the middle of the winter. It does make for a good ghost story though, so I suspect this rumor to be further perpetuated.
Responses to the above:
1. Agree 100%. You can check the stocking reports and the numbers bear this out.
2. The DH goes from 11/1-5/1. Coldest part of the year so that negates the water temp argument which you reinforced in the last statement you made.
3. Which one, 09, 15, etc.??? There have been several which moved literal tons of silt around and downstream and there are hundreds of tons still being washed down and stock piling behind Morgan Falls. Far more noticeable since the dredging operations ceased.
4. Best fishermen on the river and they along with otters do tear up trout!
5. Siltation kills all bio mass and nobody is doing much about it.
6. During the summer and fall yes but again those effects are negated by the winter temperatures.
1000. 100% incorrect statement as myself and several other anglers have watched striper chase them up shallow and eat trout very aggressively in the DH as recently as a couple weeks ago. This has been noted in several of the DH related threads. 'I have caught hundreds of stripers and hundred of trout in this drainage basin over the last 15 years, and have no first hand accounts of them destroying trout in the middle of the winter.' Do you fish the DH when it is the DH would be my question? Also, have you thought about that striper could now have a resident population in that section of the river due in part to learning about a food source being present in the winter?

I agree with Alex... Make the DH great again!!!
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Old 02-01-18, 04:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
1000. 100% incorrect statement as myself and several other anglers have watched striper chase them up shallow and eat trout very aggressively in the DH as recently as a couple weeks ago. This has been noted in several of the DH related threads. 'I have caught hundreds of stripers and hundred of trout in this drainage basin over the last 15 years, and have no first hand accounts of them destroying trout in the middle of the winter.' Do you fish the DH when it is the DH would be my question? Also, have you thought about that striper could now have a resident population in that section of the river due in part to learning about a food source being present in the winter?
Phil is right here. I've seen them caught on Fishbrain by a certain fella who focuses on them pretty regularly. I have also personally seen them in the river at paces as recent as mid December.

If they are here mid December, why on earth would they swim that amount of river miles back to west point only to come back up again. Seems like a tremendous waste of energy for a fish. We all know fish don't like to do that.

I think it's safe to say we have a resident population at this point.

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Old 02-01-18, 04:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
Responses to the above:
1. Agree 100%. You can check the stocking reports and the numbers bear this out.
2. The DH goes from 11/1-5/1. Coldest part of the year so that negates the water temp argument which you reinforced in the last statement you made.
3. Which one, 09, 15, etc.??? There have been several which moved literal tons of silt around and downstream and there are hundreds of tons still being washed down and stock piling behind Morgan Falls. Far more noticeable since the dredging operations ceased.
4. Best fishermen on the river and they along with otters do tear up trout!
5. Siltation kills all bio mass and nobody is doing much about it.
6. During the summer and fall yes but again those effects are negated by the winter temperatures.
1000. 100% incorrect statement as myself and several other anglers have watched striper chase them up shallow and eat trout very aggressively in the DH as recently as a couple weeks ago. This has been noted in several of the DH related threads. 'I have caught hundreds of stripers and hundred of trout in this drainage basin over the last 15 years, and have no first hand accounts of them destroying trout in the middle of the winter.' Do you fish the DH when it is the DH would be my question? Also, have you thought about that striper could now have a resident population in that section of the river due in part to learning about a food source being present in the winter?

I agree with Alex... Make the DH great again!!!
1. agree

2. I was referring to the recent extreme cold temps with regards to trout metabolism and feeding... trout don't feed very well in the 30-40 degree water, should improve in the spring. This statement would be more isolated to why the DH isn't fishing too well at the moment.

3. All? The 2009 flood seemed to have a most pronounced result, I used to catch shoalies, yellow perch, pickerel, crappie, etc at a far more frequent by catch than post-2009, although the shoalie population is recovering.

4. agree

5. agree

1000. There are certainly some stray stripes, my point is the frequency of striper induced trout mortality is not high up on the list to blame from poor DH trout fishing. No, I don't typically fish for bass in the DH in the middle of winter due to "cost-benefit" worth of time spent for results, at least in comparison to other parts of the state and other times of the year. I certainly wouldn't call the entirety of original statement 100% incorrect. I probably should have modified the phrase "I personally do not have a first hand account" for clarity... but to further clarify, a rouge eat here and there does not qualify to me as "destroying" either.


Looking back at my notes, there were plenty of years back in the mid '00s where I could consistently float the DH and catch trout along any given portion of the entire stretch, and end up with a 10-20 catch count in the 3-5 hour trip range. Last 7+ years or so I really haven't any days like that, unless it is following a stocking event or during a caddis hatch.
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Old 02-01-18, 04:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mlewis View Post
1. agree

2. I was referring to the recent extreme cold temps with regards to trout metabolism and feeding... trout don't feed very well in the 30-40 degree water, should improve in the spring. This statement would be more isolated to why the DH isn't fishing too well at the moment.

3. All? The 2009 flood seemed to have a most pronounced result, I used to catch shoalies, yellow perch, pickerel, crappie, etc at a far more frequent by catch than post-2009, although the shoalie population is recovering.

4. agree

5. agree

1000. There are certainly some stray stripes, my point is the frequency of striper induced trout mortality is not high up on the list to blame from poor DH trout fishing. No, I don't typically fish for bass in the DH in the middle of winter due to "cost-benefit" worth of time spent for results, at least in comparison to other parts of the state and other times of the year. I certainly wouldn't call the entirety of original statement 100% incorrect. I probably should have modified the phrase "I personally do not have a first hand account" for clarity... but to further clarify, a rouge eat here and there does not qualify to me as "destroying" either.


Looking back at my notes, there were plenty of years back in the mid '00s where I could consistently float the DH and catch trout along any given portion of the entire stretch, and end up with a 10-20 catch count in the 3-5 hour trip range. Last 7+ years or so I really haven't any days like that, unless it is following a stocking event or during a caddis hatch.

Awesome responses sir. Thank you.
2 makes more sense after clarifying.
3. That flood was insanity and I was not fishing at the time at all but I have noticed massive amounts of change within the entire river system from before and after as I did paddle the river quite frequently. Glad the shoalies are coming back but it is an uphill battle unless the rest of the bio mass can recover quicker as well.
The striper conundrum... the way I look at it if there are reports from fishermen seeing it, how many times is it happening when people are not around, or at night?
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Old 02-02-18, 09:41 AM   #29
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So if stripers are ruining a trout fishery why don't we start stocking stripers instead of trout? Serious question.


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Old 02-02-18, 01:16 PM   #30
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So if stripers are ruining a trout fishery why don't we start stocking stripers instead of trout? Serious question.


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Dang good question. Still though until the silting in issue can start to be resolved it is kind of a moot point because if the trout go, what will the striper feed upon? Plus shoalies just look dang cool!
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