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Old 02-02-18, 08:44 AM   #31
THE EG
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
If you were to try to get a SABT restocking program going here, how would you go about?
Go to the Fly Fishing Show today and tomorrow and talk to Carl Riggs or Mack Martin in the TU booth. Try and track down Kevin McGrath who coordinated the TU Back The Brookie program for about a decade. Find Jeff Durniak in the Smithgall Woods/DNR booth. Report back to us what they said.

Have you purchased a brook trout license plate?

Those would be a start.

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Originally Posted by fishinbub View Post
They have never worked to put Brook trout in drainages that are secondary trout streams, which was the original point.
Why waste limited resources when the primary trout streams fail so often.
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Old 02-02-18, 09:15 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by THE EG View Post
Why waste limited resources when the primary trout streams fail so often.
Being relatively new to this whole thing, what do you mean the primary streams fail? Fail to support the fishery, habitat, or fail in some other manner.

To all:
Also, the chattahoochee-oconee foothills project may be (?) a start toward this, particularly if we had input from fisherman about restoration, conservation, saving of various stream watersheds....
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/conf/...d=fseprd514937
Not sure if all these things are related and there are a lot of various interest groups for the forest ranging from ATV usage to hunting and hiking.
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Old 02-02-18, 09:31 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by THE EG View Post
Go to the Fly Fishing Show today and tomorrow and talk to Carl Riggs or Mack Martin in the TU booth. Try and track down Kevin McGrath who coordinated the TU Back The Brookie program for about a decade. Find Jeff Durniak in the Smithgall Woods/DNR booth. Report back to us what they said.

Have you purchased a brook trout license plate?

Those would be a start.



Why waste limited resources when the primary trout streams fail so often.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not knocking TU over this. They couldn't put brookies in these streams if they wanted to. 25 years ago, brookie restoration projects consisted of a technician carrying a minnow bucket full of brookies over the ridge and dumping them in the creek. Those days are long gone. It's a serious undertaking to jump thru the hoops and make it happen

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Old 02-02-18, 10:10 AM   #34
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Hey Jakkbauer,
Cohutta Chapter of TU meets on the fourth Tuesdays of the month at Hudsons Grill near Town Center. You are welcome to come. We are involved with three stream projects this year. They are Raccoon Creek, Lovinggood Creek and I forgot the third one.
Mike
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Old 02-02-18, 10:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by splatek16 View Post
Being relatively new to this whole thing, what do you mean the primary streams fail? Fail to support the fishery, habitat, or fail in some other manner.

To all:
Also, the chattahoochee-oconee foothills project may be (?) a start toward this, particularly if we had input from fisherman about restoration, conservation, saving of various stream watersheds....
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/conf/...d=fseprd514937
Not sure if all these things are related and there are a lot of various interest groups for the forest ranging from ATV usage to hunting and hiking.
Thanks for sharing this ... there is a lot in here.

Regarding the fisheries, I don't exactly know the answer to your question, but ... I think of it this way.

Draw a line up the Appalachians from Rome, Georgia to say Caribou, Maine. Widen the line into a bar by ~ 50 miles on each side, and now draw latitude lines across your Appalachian diagonal. The latitude interval doesn't matter too much, but make it reasonably discrete.

Now imagine a histogram. Y axis is 'summed numbers of trout' and X axis are the latitude lines you just drew. Say the Y even sums between the latitude lines. This histogram will mostly be a diagonal upwards, with Rome, GA containing 0 trout, a dramatic slope upwards to somewhere like Harpers Ferry WV, then sloping upwards at a much slower rate, and mostly flat from the Catskills to Maine, where the trout habitat is mostly steady and year-round.

Back to us - the North Georgia mountains are the first histogram bar that is not zero. This deep in the tails of that distribution, small events or variations are crazily impactful; compared to farther north, our trout are clinging to the edge of the cliff above the abyss, more or less, and seen through this lens, events like the Waters Creek poaching or development north of Dawson cause decades of negative impact.

Draw a map of north Georgia in pencil and color in the trout habitat with a striking color - it will look like islands, and as you have spent time in those islands, you will note their dissimilarity to the surrounding area.

This is a long way of describing why people are so quiet about where to find specks, or trout at all, why small streams aren't named, and so on - but here in the tails of that distribution, conservation requires some thought, as if it isn't done 'perfectly', it will be a futile waste of resources.

Interestingly, the constraints can also be refashioned into strengths - a few enthusiasts with minnow buckets walking the trails under a full moon can save a stream, too.

Thanks again for sharing this.
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Old 02-02-18, 11:10 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mudrun View Post
Thanks for sharing this ... there is a lot in here.

Regarding the fisheries, I don't exactly know the answer to your question, but ... I think of it this way.

Draw a line up the Appalachians from Rome, Georgia to say Caribou, Maine. Widen the line into a bar by ~ 50 miles on each side, and now draw latitude lines across your Appalachian diagonal. The latitude interval doesn't matter too much, but make it reasonably discrete.

Now imagine a histogram. Y axis is 'summed numbers of trout' and X axis are the latitude lines you just drew. Say the Y even sums between the latitude lines. This histogram will mostly be a diagonal upwards, with Rome, GA containing 0 trout, a dramatic slope upwards to somewhere like Harpers Ferry WV, then sloping upwards at a much slower rate, and mostly flat from the Catskills to Maine, where the trout habitat is mostly steady and year-round.

Back to us - the North Georgia mountains are the first histogram bar that is not zero. This deep in the tails of that distribution, small events or variations are crazily impactful; compared to farther north, our trout are clinging to the edge of the cliff above the abyss, more or less, and seen through this lens, events like the Waters Creek poaching or development north of Dawson cause decades of negative impact.

Draw a map of north Georgia in pencil and color in the trout habitat with a striking color - it will look like islands, and as you have spent time in those islands, you will note their dissimilarity to the surrounding area.

This is a long way of describing why people are so quiet about where to find specks, or trout at all, why small streams aren't named, and so on - but here in the tails of that distribution, conservation requires some thought, as if it isn't done 'perfectly', it will be a futile waste of resources.

Interestingly, the constraints can also be refashioned into strengths - a few enthusiasts with minnow buckets walking the trails under a full moon can save a stream, too.

Thanks again for sharing this.
WOW. Really good way of looking at things.
Thanks!
I love data!
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Old 02-02-18, 12:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE EG View Post
Go to the Fly Fishing Show today and tomorrow and talk to Carl Riggs or Mack Martin in the TU booth. Try and track down Kevin McGrath who coordinated the TU Back The Brookie program for about a decade. Find Jeff Durniak in the Smithgall Woods/DNR booth. Report back to us what they said.

Have you purchased a brook trout license plate?

Those would be a start.



Why waste limited resources when the primary trout streams fail so often.
@EG, I spoke extensively with Carl and Mack at the Spring Fling last year. Carl gave me his card and asked me to email him which I did and I never got a response for some reason or another. I have not met Jeff but plan on talking to him. BOTH my Tacoma and Subaru have a Brookie license plate. I will go speak to these gentlemen today. Thanks for the guidance EG!
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Old 02-02-18, 12:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudrun View Post
Thanks for sharing this ... there is a lot in here.

Regarding the fisheries, I don't exactly know the answer to your question, but ... I think of it this way.

Draw a line up the Appalachians from Rome, Georgia to say Caribou, Maine. Widen the line into a bar by ~ 50 miles on each side, and now draw latitude lines across your Appalachian diagonal. The latitude interval doesn't matter too much, but make it reasonably discrete.

Now imagine a histogram. Y axis is 'summed numbers of trout' and X axis are the latitude lines you just drew. Say the Y even sums between the latitude lines. This histogram will mostly be a diagonal upwards, with Rome, GA containing 0 trout, a dramatic slope upwards to somewhere like Harpers Ferry WV, then sloping upwards at a much slower rate, and mostly flat from the Catskills to Maine, where the trout habitat is mostly steady and year-round.

Back to us - the North Georgia mountains are the first histogram bar that is not zero. This deep in the tails of that distribution, small events or variations are crazily impactful; compared to farther north, our trout are clinging to the edge of the cliff above the abyss, more or less, and seen through this lens, events like the Waters Creek poaching or development north of Dawson cause decades of negative impact.

Draw a map of north Georgia in pencil and color in the trout habitat with a striking color - it will look like islands, and as you have spent time in those islands, you will note their dissimilarity to the surrounding area.

This is a long way of describing why people are so quiet about where to find specks, or trout at all, why small streams aren't named, and so on - but here in the tails of that distribution, conservation requires some thought, as if it isn't done 'perfectly', it will be a futile waste of resources.

Interestingly, the constraints can also be refashioned into strengths - a few enthusiasts with minnow buckets walking the trails under a full moon can save a stream, too.

Thanks again for sharing this.
And most of this data can be found in a colored map form from the Eastern Brook Trout Joint Venture web pages!!! http://easternbrooktrout.org/
I really enjoyed reading this point of view. I think your analogy of these fish on the precipice of a cliff is accurate. I also totally agree that moonlight minnow buckets are being talked about because it is the elephant in the room. And what a lovely elephant it is!


Quote:
Originally Posted by splatek16 View Post
WOW. Really good way of looking at things.
Thanks!
I love data!
Splatek... when do you want to come jump in a boat and talk and fish?
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Old 02-02-18, 12:44 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
And most of this data can be found in a colored map form from the Eastern Brook Trout Joint Venture web pages!!! http://easternbrooktrout.org/
I really enjoyed reading this point of view. I think your analogy of these fish on the precipice of a cliff is accurate. I also totally agree that moonlight minnow buckets are being talked about because it is the elephant in the room. And what a lovely elephant it is!
You just COMPLETELY blew my mind with this ... I had no idea someone has this around. Oh glorious day. I am pleased to have added something to your day and thank you for adding a whole lot to mine! Going to totally math-nerd out with all of this data, pardon me for a few hours...

I love beautiful elephants and just so you know ... I also love Spartan races, where participants have to perform obstacles such as carrying logs, boulders, or buckets full of rocks (hint) over and through trails (hint) for long periods of time. Carrying buckets of water for several miles into the wilderness sounds like it might be great obstacle race training.

In all seriousness ... given that the habitat is fashioned into 'islands', releasing minnows into an island minimizes the impact on the area outside of the island. Further, trout enthusiasts who know the creeks and trails (and who have likely blue-lined these and stared at the water over a slow peanut butter sandwich on the bank, wondering why exactly there arent fish in so perfect a stream) would have an almost automatic sense of where and when to deploy those sweet little minnows.

As opposed to a large, top-down intervention which has the higher risk of either wasting resources (time, dollars, people, trout) or looking at our islands of habitat as 'one thing' instead of the interesting, distinct, and ultimately individual plots that they are.
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Old 02-02-18, 01:01 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Philhutch80 View Post
@EG, I spoke extensively with Carl and Mack at the Spring Fling last year. Carl gave me his card and asked me to email him which I did and I never got a response for some reason or another. I have not met Jeff but plan on talking to him. BOTH my Tacoma and Subaru have a Brookie license plate. I will go speak to these gentlemen today. Thanks for the guidance EG!
Stopped by the booth to drop off a card reader this morning. Durniak was at the show but not working the booth until tomorrow. Mack Martin was in the Atlanta Fly Fishing School booth as he owns it along with Scott Schwartz. Tell Durniak about your vehicles and he’ll love ya. Those tags have been the best thing for DNR trout fisheries since they wrestled the money away from “the general fund” a couple years ago.
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