Important lessons

macbond · 04-06-00, 01:04 PM

Having found this board by way of earlier post regarding brook trout restoration in the Smokies, I have an observation I would like to share with you all.

After 19 years of trying to save and improve our cold water streams throughout the Southeast, I have learned that we can make a difference, but only if we have the science to back up our statements. Several events have led me to seek out the fisheries professionals that work for the state fisheries department in non-political positions for the knowledge that only their experience can bring.

One event is the delayed harvest program we all love. If not for people like Fred Harris in NC and others in GA and TN, there would be no DH because of the political pressure to keep the streams "keep what you catch". Another event was the stopping of trout pen aquaculture on Fontana and other lakes that might have ruined wild trout in a lot of primo streams. Yet a third is the push to build a weir dam and maintain adequate flow to make the Holston tailwater the great fishery it is today.

But none of these events would have happened without the convictions and pressure of those of us who care about the resource backed by good science to get the desired outcome.

The web is a great source of knowledge about our fisheries. Please, before someone goes off the deep end about a rumor, check out some sites or send a few e mails to the experts before we all become raving lunatics.

Keep up the good dialogue. I will join in as time permits. Maybe I'll see some of you fishing the great streams in the Smokies and we'll be able to swap some lies over a cold one.

NiteOwl · 04-06-00, 10:39 PM

Thanks macbond. We're an ever evolving group that's just really getting our feet wet in terms of helping to preserve trouting for future generations. Your comments are more than welcome. Please visit with us often.

Owl

Frequent Flyer · 04-06-00, 11:07 PM

Owl!?

Is that you?

The Ole Man · 04-06-00, 11:54 PM

mac
You have to be at least the fourth person to come on here and preach to us about "getting the facts before commenting", "getting the facts straight", "going off the deep end over a rumor", "becoming raving lunatics?(good one), "checking some sites", asking some quote "experts". Enough already!! You would think this is a major national debate or something. I can only surmise by the sensitivity and defensiveness over this issue that it is not fairing very well in North Carolina. I saw a reference ,in the other thread, to an article in the Asheville newspaper about it. We have no idea what that said. What did it say? I would say some people on this Board are for the project, some are against it, some don't know whether they are for it or against it and a bunch don't care. We have a great many of the facts already-do you folks mind if we form our own opinion without being sold the one you have??

Lisa Klein · 04-07-00, 09:36 AM

Actually, Mac has a point about spreading rumors etc...

One only had to look at the recent "brook trout management" thread to see that. A former board poster was found to be concocting stories and lying about things DNR personnel (mainly me) were saying and causing a heap of trouble (he has now been banned from this site) People were starting to believe what he was saying, and if his thread were allowed to go on, it might have caused permanent damage between the folks on that thread and DNR. Luckly I found out about it and was able to defend myself, however, not everyone in state agencies (SC, NC, TN or GA) involved with trout frequents this site, so remember this..........

"A lie gone unchallenged becomes the truth within 24 hours"

edwin · 04-07-00, 11:34 AM

Taking the middle road as you can see by my use of the side arrow, I'd have to agree in part with T.O.M. and in part with Lisa and Owl. First, as the T.O.M. said, many of us do know a great deal about "the facts" and if we don't, we generally find them out before forming an opinion. I think I can honestly say that the folks who use this board are reasonable and rational in all things troutlike. Second, it is healthy for us to challenge certain statements and claims that appear to be untrue on their face. Even if we end up being wrong, at least we got the information through a "heated discussion" and were able to revise opinions and admit mistakes, except of course, for the undersigned who never makes mistakes or commits any sin

Finally, I don't know what posts or people macbond was referring to as "going off the deep end" in response to certain rumors, but it sounds to me as if he meant no harm (it's often difficult to know what people mean in an email). Also, I think some scathing responses to facially untrue rumors or outrageous propositions are necessary in order to feret out the truth. So let's keep it up!! Always challenging rumors, information, and doing our own research is what this site is all about!!

--Edwin

P.S. Now that I have reread this post, it appears that T.O.M. and Lisa are in agreement with certain things, i.e., that we should challenge certain rumors because we do know the facts and can find them out. All you have to do is look at the info posted by Owl to realize that.

[This message has been edited by edwin (edited 04-07-2000).]

Jah Live! · 04-07-00, 11:36 AM

Lisa,

Wouldn't you consider this site to be an excellect forum to "challenge a lie". My point being that we should welcome ALL posts, valid or not, because it gives people like you the opportunity to set them straight. All this bantor about "getting the facts straight before you post" is a crock of #*&@! NGTO is where we come to get the facts straight! If I hear a rumor, I would hope I could come here to verify of discard it. If I didn't feel comfortable posting that rumor because I didn't have my "facts straight", then a potential lie would truly go "unchallenged".
If everyone were to "know the facts", then why would they need to come here? (except of course to get a good dose of Owl humor)

Jah Live!

BLACK KNIGHT · 04-07-00, 11:38 AM

Get over it already!

Ever see the commercials on TV about investing - KNOW YOUR SOURCE -
well, if you accept at blind faith everything you read on any internet site, e-mail me for a deal on great oceanfront lot I have in Idaho.

Truth is eternal - it may be temporarily subdued, but it will always prevail.

I have decided to use discretion and not comment on the practice of banning people from this board at this time. It troubles me.

edwin · 04-07-00, 11:39 AM

Yeah, what Jah Live! says. Seriously though, isn't this why we come here? Lisa, you and Jah actually agree on certain things, i.e. outrageous and harmful rumors help no one, but posts invovling misinformation or misunderstanding can be very valuable. Then, all of our fellow NGTO'ers can set the misinformed peons (like me) STRAIGHT!!

[This message has been edited by edwin (edited 04-07-2000).]

woz · 04-07-00, 01:16 PM

Being new to the Georgia Trout situation, I have no idea what the DH is and what's being planned for the future. So, I have no opinion until I hear the facts. Can anyone point me to where I can obtain credible information showing the Pro's and Con's?

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04-06-00, 01:04 PM	#1
macbond Stocker Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: mocksville, nc, usa Posts: 7	Having found this board by way of earlier post regarding brook trout restoration in the Smokies, I have an observation I would like to share with you all. After 19 years of trying to save and improve our cold water streams throughout the Southeast, I have learned that we can make a difference, but only if we have the science to back up our statements. Several events have led me to seek out the fisheries professionals that work for the state fisheries department in non-political positions for the knowledge that only their experience can bring. One event is the delayed harvest program we all love. If not for people like Fred Harris in NC and others in GA and TN, there would be no DH because of the political pressure to keep the streams "keep what you catch". Another event was the stopping of trout pen aquaculture on Fontana and other lakes that might have ruined wild trout in a lot of primo streams. Yet a third is the push to build a weir dam and maintain adequate flow to make the Holston tailwater the great fishery it is today. But none of these events would have happened without the convictions and pressure of those of us who care about the resource backed by good science to get the desired outcome. The web is a great source of knowledge about our fisheries. Please, before someone goes off the deep end about a rumor, check out some sites or send a few e mails to the experts before we all become raving lunatics. Keep up the good dialogue. I will join in as time permits. Maybe I'll see some of you fishing the great streams in the Smokies and we'll be able to swap some lies over a cold one.

04-06-00, 10:39 PM	#2
NiteOwl Ex Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Temple, GA Posts: 2,831	Thanks macbond. We're an ever evolving group that's just really getting our feet wet in terms of helping to preserve trouting for future generations. Your comments are more than welcome. Please visit with us often. Owl

04-06-00, 11:07 PM	#3
Frequent Flyer Native Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Newnan, GA, USA Posts: 1,226	Owl!? Is that you?

04-06-00, 11:54 PM	#4
The Ole Man Chief Financial Officer, Past Director, Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 7,997	mac You have to be at least the fourth person to come on here and preach to us about "getting the facts before commenting", "getting the facts straight", "going off the deep end over a rumor", "becoming raving lunatics?(good one), "checking some sites", asking some quote "experts". Enough already!! You would think this is a major national debate or something. I can only surmise by the sensitivity and defensiveness over this issue that it is not fairing very well in North Carolina. I saw a reference ,in the other thread, to an article in the Asheville newspaper about it. We have no idea what that said. What did it say? I would say some people on this Board are for the project, some are against it, some don't know whether they are for it or against it and a bunch don't care. We have a great many of the facts already-do you folks mind if we form our own opinion without being sold the one you have??

04-07-00, 09:36 AM	#5
Lisa Klein Native Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Loganville, GA, USA Posts: 105	Actually, Mac has a point about spreading rumors etc... One only had to look at the recent "brook trout management" thread to see that. A former board poster was found to be concocting stories and lying about things DNR personnel (mainly me) were saying and causing a heap of trouble (he has now been banned from this site) People were starting to believe what he was saying, and if his thread were allowed to go on, it might have caused permanent damage between the folks on that thread and DNR. Luckly I found out about it and was able to defend myself, however, not everyone in state agencies (SC, NC, TN or GA) involved with trout frequents this site, so remember this.......... "A lie gone unchallenged becomes the truth within 24 hours"

04-07-00, 11:34 AM	#6
edwin Past Director, Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 948	Taking the middle road as you can see by my use of the side arrow, I'd have to agree in part with T.O.M. and in part with Lisa and Owl. First, as the T.O.M. said, many of us do know a great deal about "the facts" and if we don't, we generally find them out before forming an opinion. I think I can honestly say that the folks who use this board are reasonable and rational in all things troutlike. Second, it is healthy for us to challenge certain statements and claims that appear to be untrue on their face. Even if we end up being wrong, at least we got the information through a "heated discussion" and were able to revise opinions and admit mistakes, except of course, for the undersigned who never makes mistakes or commits any sin Finally, I don't know what posts or people macbond was referring to as "going off the deep end" in response to certain rumors, but it sounds to me as if he meant no harm (it's often difficult to know what people mean in an email). Also, I think some scathing responses to facially untrue rumors or outrageous propositions are necessary in order to feret out the truth. So let's keep it up!! Always challenging rumors, information, and doing our own research is what this site is all about!! --Edwin P.S. Now that I have reread this post, it appears that T.O.M. and Lisa are in agreement with certain things, i.e., that we should challenge certain rumors because we do know the facts and can find them out. All you have to do is look at the info posted by Owl to realize that. [This message has been edited by edwin (edited 04-07-2000).]

04-07-00, 11:36 AM	#7
Jah Live! Native Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Woodstock, GA USA Posts: 743	Lisa, Wouldn't you consider this site to be an excellect forum to "challenge a lie". My point being that we should welcome ALL posts, valid or not, because it gives people like you the opportunity to set them straight. All this bantor about "getting the facts straight before you post" is a crock of #*&@! NGTO is where we come to get the facts straight! If I hear a rumor, I would hope I could come here to verify of discard it. If I didn't feel comfortable posting that rumor because I didn't have my "facts straight", then a potential lie would truly go "unchallenged". If everyone were to "know the facts", then why would they need to come here? (except of course to get a good dose of Owl humor) Jah Live!

04-07-00, 11:38 AM	#8
BLACK KNIGHT Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Greenville, SC, USA Posts: 3,328	Get over it already! Ever see the commercials on TV about investing - KNOW YOUR SOURCE - well, if you accept at blind faith everything you read on any internet site, e-mail me for a deal on great oceanfront lot I have in Idaho. Truth is eternal - it may be temporarily subdued, but it will always prevail. I have decided to use discretion and not comment on the practice of banning people from this board at this time. It troubles me.

04-07-00, 11:39 AM	#9
edwin Past Director, Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 948	Yeah, what Jah Live! says. Seriously though, isn't this why we come here? Lisa, you and Jah actually agree on certain things, i.e. outrageous and harmful rumors help no one, but posts invovling misinformation or misunderstanding can be very valuable. Then, all of our fellow NGTO'ers can set the misinformed peons (like me) STRAIGHT!! [This message has been edited by edwin (edited 04-07-2000).]

04-07-00, 01:16 PM	#10
woz Native Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: McDonough, GA USA Posts: 123	Being new to the Georgia Trout situation, I have no idea what the DH is and what's being planned for the future. So, I have no opinion until I hear the facts. Can anyone point me to where I can obtain credible information showing the Pro's and Con's?