Your Opinion on Hookless Fishing

AthensTroutBum · 10-16-00, 03:25 AM

Must be all the crack they're smoking in England these days....or they are just a ton better at fishing than I am.

If I ever get so good at fishing that I harass the fish because I catch so many, I'll try a new hobby.

Kellen

....and people call me a purist because I like bamboo rods, dries, and trout/salmon as my species of choice.......

Sic Puppy · 10-16-00, 08:29 AM

I wonder if your friend has ever considered wordless writing.

captfredfish · 10-16-00, 08:35 AM

Ditto, Kellen...Omigod! I think I just agreed with ATB!

Heh, Heh...JK Bud

cff

BLACK KNIGHT · 10-16-00, 09:47 AM

Well, ya beat me to it. I read that article Saturday. I was sure this article might give Nite Owl a stroke. I have never read such drivel in all my life, although I grudgingly admit the author had one or two thought provoking comments.

beowulff · 10-16-00, 10:18 AM

Fish Harrassment? Give me the cliched "break"....

While I'll be the first to admit that there are, and have been, too many cases where humans have "taken unnecessary advantage" of animals (driving pack mules to their death, dog fighting, c*ck fighting, etc.), this nascent trend in our sport to be fish sensitive is horsefeathers, pure and simple. Look, at a philosophical level, fishing with or without a hook is "fish harassment", or at least, "fish teasing". The writer would be better to never fish again and leave the fish to live out their existence without ever being bothered by his lure, hookless or not. Of course, then he/she wouldn't have gotten paid for his/her worthless drivel, which was probably the point anyway.

Enough on this. I'm taking my dog to the field, where I will shoot quail with my pellet-less shotgun. Wouldn't want to harass something with a brain the size of a pencil eraser.....

GOOD GRIEF!!!!

[This message has been edited by beowulff (edited 10-16-2000).]

bbell · 10-16-00, 10:52 AM

I haven't seen the article, but I bet it was written by John Betts. He is probably the only lunatic who adheres to that practice. What a joke!
I fish mainly because I love fish. I like nothing better than to catch a big shoalie or seatrout and admire it for a while before the release. I would never want to keep the fish at rod's length from me. I don't see how anyone who loves the natural world would want to divorce himself from it so completely...hookless fishing is completely focused on technical aptitude and ignores the relationship between fish and the fisherman.
The sad thing is that Betts actually convinced Partridge to manufacture pointless hooks. The hooks actually had an eye at both ends. I have no idea if they ever sold a box or not.
This issue came up several years back when he wrote about it for another magazine. I don't think it has caught on at all since that time, and I haven't really heard it mentioned until recently. Fly Rod and Reel has always published provacative articles like this...I think they see themselves as renegades..
Betts needs to stick with fly-tying and stay away from angling philosophy. He came up with Zing wings and Z-lon (shuck material on X-caddis and sparkle duns).

BLACK KNIGHT · 10-16-00, 11:22 AM

bbell- Geez, come to think of it, John Betts rings a bell. You are a sharp cookie!

Where have I heard that name before, if he didn't write the article?

[This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 10-17-2000).]

Ribbons · 10-16-00, 01:48 PM

Ok...Question for everyone out there.

What is your opinion on Hookless Fishing and do you practice this? If so, what are your reasons and if not, why not?

The new issue of Fly Rod & Reel has an article on this and I had never heard of it until I read this. So, I'm wondering about you all. It really was a very informative article. Obiviously, the writer was pro-hookless ff and gave some very good reasons as to why this needs to be practiced more that it is.

He also stated that fishing during the peak growing season boarders on the lines of "fish harassment". His point being, the endless flotilla of flies, hour after hour,day after day, during the peak mayfly and caddis hatches, constitute fish harassment, in roughly the same sense that chasing coyotes with snowmobiles "for fun" is wildlife harassment." "Relentlessly targeting fish under those conditions may violate any meaningful interpreatation of fair chase"...

He also goes on to say.."Times have changed, and it's been so much fun that we've hardly noticed. Many of us don't even recognize how effective we now are as predators, probably b/c we don't kill our prey. Our tools have become incomparably more efficient, while the trout's defense mechanisms have not."

He believes in seasonal closures, designated "sanctuary" areas, or limited access even to public water.

He also says that, "the deadly, now universal practice of fishing a dry fly downstream. As progressive, practical anglers, we tended to scoff at British prohibitions against downstream casting and even simple wading they appeared to be traditions maintanied for their own sakes, b/c, as they say over there, "That is how one does it."

I know this is a long post but I wanted to include some of his statments in case you didn't get a chance to read the article.

So, after all of this....what is everyone's opinion. I am just totally curious about all this, I don't know enough about ff to even begin to form an opinion yet.

Thanks!
Wendy

10-16-00, 07:42 PM

Pete Bodo's article on hookless fishing in the latest Fly R&R--This guy must have been retained by PETA!!
TB

NiteOwl · 10-16-00, 07:54 PM

Oh I love the idea.

I suggest that we also try bikeless mountain biking and clubless golf. How about baseballless baseball or kiteless kite flying....

I have preached it to you all..........and unless we wake up....it will happen....

It starts with a desire to catch and release everything you catch...which in my opinion is no better than keeping everything you catch.....C&R has a very important place in most angling, but not in all angling....and not all the time......eating fish is a major plank in our "wall of defense" against the anti's. Everyone should, if they enjoy fish, eat a few every now and then. Even trout....even wild trout........but you must use discretion......eating 8 wild fish out of a stream only a few feet wide may be ok once every two or three years if you are the only one fishing it, but usually your not, so eating one every three yearsmay be ok, but then again, depending on the stream, even that may be detrimental. Eating 2 or 3 every three years out of a large watershed isn't going to matter even if you and 20 other people do the same. But am I talking small trout or 12 inchers.......well, the latest data that I've seen suggests that it's best to eat the 12 inchers( wild.... in GA, these would be adult trout)...because they are near the end of their productive(and consequently reproductive) cycles and would die soon anyway.( Lisa?)

I think you have to know what your doing.............therefore......turning "Bubba" loose on your favorite wild trout stream is a no-no. That's why some of us guard the "secret" streams ( you know, the ones that don't exist!

)with so much vigor.

Fishing without hooks is TROUT WORSHIP, not trout fishing....and should be called such...and viewed as such. Fishing is the art of trying to catch a fish........"hookless fishing" is molesting fish for absolutly no reason( I have a reason, I like to feel them pull and fool them into biting a piece of feather)......so actually, the author is more of a fish harrasser....but that's a minor argument that should probably be let go........
The major argument against "hookless fishing" is as follows-
Fishing without hooks could lead to no fishing at all.I know there are those that scoff and sneer at such an idea.....but here we go....every day , over and over, I see us( the angling community) inching toward treating the trout as a god, instead of just a fish...) How hard is it to see that PETA has been given the perfect chance to snap up and idea........the idea that we can still have our fishing and not "hurt" the fish.

What we need to be doing is hurting a few more with some lemons and a little butter.( With discretion.....always.)

Owl

[This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 10-16-2000).]

[This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 10-16-2000).]

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10-16-00, 03:25 AM	#1
AthensTroutBum Native Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: 4th ward, ATL Posts: 427	Must be all the crack they're smoking in England these days....or they are just a ton better at fishing than I am. If I ever get so good at fishing that I harass the fish because I catch so many, I'll try a new hobby. Kellen ....and people call me a purist because I like bamboo rods, dries, and trout/salmon as my species of choice.......

10-16-00, 08:29 AM	#2
Sic Puppy Native Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Athens GA USA Posts: 102	I wonder if your friend has ever considered wordless writing.

10-16-00, 08:35 AM	#3
captfredfish Native Join Date: May 2000 Location: Live Oak,FL USA Posts: 299	Ditto, Kellen...Omigod! I think I just agreed with ATB! Heh, Heh...JK Bud cff

10-16-00, 09:47 AM	#4
BLACK KNIGHT Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Greenville, SC, USA Posts: 3,328	Well, ya beat me to it. I read that article Saturday. I was sure this article might give Nite Owl a stroke. I have never read such drivel in all my life, although I grudgingly admit the author had one or two thought provoking comments.

10-16-00, 10:18 AM	#5
beowulff Native Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Adairsville, GA, USA Posts: 112	Fish Harrassment? Give me the cliched "break".... While I'll be the first to admit that there are, and have been, too many cases where humans have "taken unnecessary advantage" of animals (driving pack mules to their death, dog fighting, c*ck fighting, etc.), this nascent trend in our sport to be fish sensitive is horsefeathers, pure and simple. Look, at a philosophical level, fishing with or without a hook is "fish harassment", or at least, "fish teasing". The writer would be better to never fish again and leave the fish to live out their existence without ever being bothered by his lure, hookless or not. Of course, then he/she wouldn't have gotten paid for his/her worthless drivel, which was probably the point anyway. Enough on this. I'm taking my dog to the field, where I will shoot quail with my pellet-less shotgun. Wouldn't want to harass something with a brain the size of a pencil eraser..... GOOD GRIEF!!!! [This message has been edited by beowulff (edited 10-16-2000).]

10-16-00, 10:52 AM	#6
bbell Native Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,287	I haven't seen the article, but I bet it was written by John Betts. He is probably the only lunatic who adheres to that practice. What a joke! I fish mainly because I love fish. I like nothing better than to catch a big shoalie or seatrout and admire it for a while before the release. I would never want to keep the fish at rod's length from me. I don't see how anyone who loves the natural world would want to divorce himself from it so completely...hookless fishing is completely focused on technical aptitude and ignores the relationship between fish and the fisherman. The sad thing is that Betts actually convinced Partridge to manufacture pointless hooks. The hooks actually had an eye at both ends. I have no idea if they ever sold a box or not. This issue came up several years back when he wrote about it for another magazine. I don't think it has caught on at all since that time, and I haven't really heard it mentioned until recently. Fly Rod and Reel has always published provacative articles like this...I think they see themselves as renegades.. Betts needs to stick with fly-tying and stay away from angling philosophy. He came up with Zing wings and Z-lon (shuck material on X-caddis and sparkle duns).

10-16-00, 11:22 AM	#7
BLACK KNIGHT Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Greenville, SC, USA Posts: 3,328	bbell- Geez, come to think of it, John Betts rings a bell. You are a sharp cookie! Where have I heard that name before, if he didn't write the article? [This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 10-17-2000).]

10-16-00, 01:48 PM	#8
Ribbons Native Join Date: May 2000 Location: Monroe, GA Posts: 96	Ok...Question for everyone out there. What is your opinion on Hookless Fishing and do you practice this? If so, what are your reasons and if not, why not? The new issue of Fly Rod & Reel has an article on this and I had never heard of it until I read this. So, I'm wondering about you all. It really was a very informative article. Obiviously, the writer was pro-hookless ff and gave some very good reasons as to why this needs to be practiced more that it is. He also stated that fishing during the peak growing season boarders on the lines of "fish harassment". His point being, the endless flotilla of flies, hour after hour,day after day, during the peak mayfly and caddis hatches, constitute fish harassment, in roughly the same sense that chasing coyotes with snowmobiles "for fun" is wildlife harassment." "Relentlessly targeting fish under those conditions may violate any meaningful interpreatation of fair chase"... He also goes on to say.."Times have changed, and it's been so much fun that we've hardly noticed. Many of us don't even recognize how effective we now are as predators, probably b/c we don't kill our prey. Our tools have become incomparably more efficient, while the trout's defense mechanisms have not." He believes in seasonal closures, designated "sanctuary" areas, or limited access even to public water. He also says that, "the deadly, now universal practice of fishing a dry fly downstream. As progressive, practical anglers, we tended to scoff at British prohibitions against downstream casting and even simple wading they appeared to be traditions maintanied for their own sakes, b/c, as they say over there, "That is how one does it." I know this is a long post but I wanted to include some of his statments in case you didn't get a chance to read the article. So, after all of this....what is everyone's opinion. I am just totally curious about all this, I don't know enough about ff to even begin to form an opinion yet. Thanks! Wendy

10-16-00, 07:42 PM	#9
TRAILBLAZER Guest Posts: n/a	Pete Bodo's article on hookless fishing in the latest Fly R&R--This guy must have been retained by PETA!! TB

10-16-00, 07:54 PM	#10
NiteOwl Ex Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Temple, GA Posts: 2,831	Oh I love the idea. I suggest that we also try bikeless mountain biking and clubless golf. How about baseballless baseball or kiteless kite flying.... I have preached it to you all..........and unless we wake up....it will happen.... It starts with a desire to catch and release everything you catch...which in my opinion is no better than keeping everything you catch.....C&R has a very important place in most angling, but not in all angling....and not all the time......eating fish is a major plank in our "wall of defense" against the anti's. Everyone should, if they enjoy fish, eat a few every now and then. Even trout....even wild trout........but you must use discretion......eating 8 wild fish out of a stream only a few feet wide may be ok once every two or three years if you are the only one fishing it, but usually your not, so eating one every three yearsmay be ok, but then again, depending on the stream, even that may be detrimental. Eating 2 or 3 every three years out of a large watershed isn't going to matter even if you and 20 other people do the same. But am I talking small trout or 12 inchers.......well, the latest data that I've seen suggests that it's best to eat the 12 inchers( wild.... in GA, these would be adult trout)...because they are near the end of their productive(and consequently reproductive) cycles and would die soon anyway.( Lisa?) I think you have to know what your doing.............therefore......turning "Bubba" loose on your favorite wild trout stream is a no-no. That's why some of us guard the "secret" streams ( you know, the ones that don't exist! )with so much vigor. Fishing without hooks is TROUT WORSHIP, not trout fishing....and should be called such...and viewed as such. Fishing is the art of trying to catch a fish........"hookless fishing" is molesting fish for absolutly no reason( I have a reason, I like to feel them pull and fool them into biting a piece of feather)......so actually, the author is more of a fish harrasser....but that's a minor argument that should probably be let go........ The major argument against "hookless fishing" is as follows- Fishing without hooks could lead to no fishing at all.I know there are those that scoff and sneer at such an idea.....but here we go....every day , over and over, I see us( the angling community) inching toward treating the trout as a god, instead of just a fish...) How hard is it to see that PETA has been given the perfect chance to snap up and idea........the idea that we can still have our fishing and not "hurt" the fish. What we need to be doing is hurting a few more with some lemons and a little butter.( With discretion.....always.) Owl [This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 10-16-2000).] [This message has been edited by NiteOwl (edited 10-16-2000).]