Brown/Rainbow Food

DeBacker · 09-06-00, 01:19 PM

I hear a lot of people say that while they fish big baits for browns, they think that even big rainbows eat insects mostly. I just think that any bigger fish, will rely more on bigger forage. Is is true that big rainbows aren't the meat eaters that big browns are? I think this is a myth, just because browns are the smarter fish and therefore get bigger, and so making people fish the "big lure, big fish" deal for them and not as often for rainbows.

BLACK KNIGHT · 09-06-00, 01:33 PM

I think you couldn't be more right! Of course big rainbows eat more than insects. That's how they get so big in areas. Smelt and alewife are commonly used in the Great Lakes for big 'bows, and you can't tell me those bruisers coming out of Idaho got that big on caddis!
I wonder if it is that rainbows are more opportunistic than big browns, in that they won't pass up small insects in addition to their heavier forage, that gives people the impression they are so insect oriented?
I guess we could have a really good discussion about this impression that browns are "smarter" and bigger too, too. The world records for both fish are just over 40 pounds. I think the environment has major influence. Given the better water out west, the rainbows grow to huge sizes too.

[This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 09-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 09-06-2000).]

huntfish · 09-06-00, 02:22 PM

The rainbows in Alaska follow the salmon up not only to feed on the eggs but also on the rotting fish.

DeBacker · 09-06-00, 03:35 PM

BK,
I like your theory about the rainbows being more opportunistic. Mabye that is why they are not labeled as smart as the browns.
I do have to say that there is a difference between the smartness/opportunisticness or rainbows and I have heard of surveys of streams with an even mix of browns and bows and the bow were caught four to one.

The Ole Man · 09-06-00, 03:40 PM

This looks like a good spot for me to pose a question. I was reading a FF mag the other day (forgot which one), but the article was about fishing a mouse-rat fly and about how big brownies have their carniverous bent turned on by a rat fly and about how the bows gobble them up in Alaska. This just made me wonder-has anybody ever tried a mouse-rat fly on the Chattahoochee??

BLACK KNIGHT · 09-06-00, 04:33 PM

I think I just have a problem labeling anything with a brain the size of a garden pea, "smart". There are other factors at work, IMHO. I wish Lisa Klein would weigh in on this post.

gfra · 09-06-00, 04:44 PM

Well, we use less than ten percent of our mental capacity, and therefore our large brain could be reduced to one just about the size of a plum, with no loss in cognitive ability. What if the Bow and Brown use 100% of there pea sized brains. Plums ain't THAT much bigger than peas.....

[This message has been edited by gfra (edited 09-06-2000).]

DeBacker · 09-06-00, 06:37 PM

I think that fish "smartness" isn't what we call smart in humans. Animals don't really reason like we do. A "smart" animal, is more an animal that is more cautious and perhaps has a better memory.

Kent · 09-06-00, 07:22 PM

Don't think there is any doubt that rainbows (& brooks) are predators.

- Fish with Hooker on the Hooch & watch him catch rainbows on 6" Rapalas.

- Read my old post on Vicious N. C. Shark Attack

Browns often do tend to lie in spots where they're more apt to see baitfish than insects , whereas rainbows will often move into "buggy" feeding stations. Browns also tend to feed nocturnally, when fewer bugs are moving (Old Man, I have taken them on deerhair bass poppers & sliders after dark). But a good hatch will bring the browns out - if the bugs are abundant they sometimes get careless (see this more out west & up north than hereabouts).

As far as brains, I think y'all are right - there's a lot more to it than that, regardless of their size. Genetic imprints are probably of much more use to the fish than their brains, & I guess they have us beat quite a ways there.

------------------
Kent
Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond

[This message has been edited by Kent (edited 09-06-2000).]

Gray ghost · 09-06-00, 09:29 PM

Hey Ole Man I throw a size 6 mouse rat on the Hooch this time of year in the evenings and it can be productive. I have caught Browns and Bows as small as 14 inches with the mouse. Throwing it in nice log piles or letting it skip right off the bank into the water has worked for me pretty good over the years. A size 8 I feel would be perfect for the river but to hard for me to tie .

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09-06-00, 01:19 PM	#1
DeBacker Native Join Date: May 1999 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 698	I hear a lot of people say that while they fish big baits for browns, they think that even big rainbows eat insects mostly. I just think that any bigger fish, will rely more on bigger forage. Is is true that big rainbows aren't the meat eaters that big browns are? I think this is a myth, just because browns are the smarter fish and therefore get bigger, and so making people fish the "big lure, big fish" deal for them and not as often for rainbows.

09-06-00, 01:33 PM	#2
BLACK KNIGHT Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Greenville, SC, USA Posts: 3,328	I think you couldn't be more right! Of course big rainbows eat more than insects. That's how they get so big in areas. Smelt and alewife are commonly used in the Great Lakes for big 'bows, and you can't tell me those bruisers coming out of Idaho got that big on caddis! I wonder if it is that rainbows are more opportunistic than big browns, in that they won't pass up small insects in addition to their heavier forage, that gives people the impression they are so insect oriented? I guess we could have a really good discussion about this impression that browns are "smarter" and bigger too, too. The world records for both fish are just over 40 pounds. I think the environment has major influence. Given the better water out west, the rainbows grow to huge sizes too. [This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 09-06-2000).] [This message has been edited by BLACK KNIGHT (edited 09-06-2000).]

09-06-00, 02:22 PM	#3
huntfish Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Lawrenceville, GA, USA Posts: 4,549	The rainbows in Alaska follow the salmon up not only to feed on the eggs but also on the rotting fish.

09-06-00, 03:35 PM	#4
DeBacker Native Join Date: May 1999 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 698	BK, I like your theory about the rainbows being more opportunistic. Mabye that is why they are not labeled as smart as the browns. I do have to say that there is a difference between the smartness/opportunisticness or rainbows and I have heard of surveys of streams with an even mix of browns and bows and the bow were caught four to one.

09-06-00, 03:40 PM	#5
The Ole Man Chief Financial Officer, Past Director, Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 8,000	This looks like a good spot for me to pose a question. I was reading a FF mag the other day (forgot which one), but the article was about fishing a mouse-rat fly and about how big brownies have their carniverous bent turned on by a rat fly and about how the bows gobble them up in Alaska. This just made me wonder-has anybody ever tried a mouse-rat fly on the Chattahoochee??

09-06-00, 04:33 PM	#6
BLACK KNIGHT Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Greenville, SC, USA Posts: 3,328	I think I just have a problem labeling anything with a brain the size of a garden pea, "smart". There are other factors at work, IMHO. I wish Lisa Klein would weigh in on this post.

09-06-00, 04:44 PM	#7
gfra Native Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Athens, GA 30602 Posts: 380	Well, we use less than ten percent of our mental capacity, and therefore our large brain could be reduced to one just about the size of a plum, with no loss in cognitive ability. What if the Bow and Brown use 100% of there pea sized brains. Plums ain't THAT much bigger than peas..... [This message has been edited by gfra (edited 09-06-2000).]

09-06-00, 06:37 PM	#8
DeBacker Native Join Date: May 1999 Location: Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 698	I think that fish "smartness" isn't what we call smart in humans. Animals don't really reason like we do. A "smart" animal, is more an animal that is more cautious and perhaps has a better memory.

09-06-00, 07:22 PM	#9
Kent Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: LaGrange, GA Posts: 1,489	Don't think there is any doubt that rainbows (& brooks) are predators. - Fish with Hooker on the Hooch & watch him catch rainbows on 6" Rapalas. - Read my old post on Vicious N. C. Shark Attack Browns often do tend to lie in spots where they're more apt to see baitfish than insects , whereas rainbows will often move into "buggy" feeding stations. Browns also tend to feed nocturnally, when fewer bugs are moving (Old Man, I have taken them on deerhair bass poppers & sliders after dark). But a good hatch will bring the browns out - if the bugs are abundant they sometimes get careless (see this more out west & up north than hereabouts). As far as brains, I think y'all are right - there's a lot more to it than that, regardless of their size. Genetic imprints are probably of much more use to the fish than their brains, & I guess they have us beat quite a ways there. ------------------ Kent Flyfishing West Georgia & Beyond [This message has been edited by Kent (edited 09-06-2000).]

09-06-00, 09:29 PM	#10
Gray ghost Hall of Fame Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Cumming Ga. USA Now pronounced Qmen Ga. Posts: 1,908	Hey Ole Man I throw a size 6 mouse rat on the Hooch this time of year in the evenings and it can be productive. I have caught Browns and Bows as small as 14 inches with the mouse. Throwing it in nice log piles or letting it skip right off the bank into the water has worked for me pretty good over the years. A size 8 I feel would be perfect for the river but to hard for me to tie .